Starcraft 2

[MrFlibble]

Hey guys, have you read this? There are quite a few cool features listed down there, surely worth reading ;D If Blizzard implements even half of this stuff (I'm talking mostly about new campaign style), that would be really cool ::)

[Aristeas]

I would actually like to see hero units in the game.  As far as I'm concerned, the hero unit is one of the coolest thing to happen to the rts genre since it was invented.

[Khan]

Do you mean heroes as they were in warcraft 3 or just character units in general? I don't think Warcraft style heroes would lend themselves very well to the Starcraft universe, I'm sure there'd be a way of implementing it but certain factors (like what upgrades would come with leveling up) would need major thinking.

[MrFlibble]

I believe they're going to make heroes to be unique units with unique abilities, not the Warcraft III-styled "revive at the altar" heroes. Since Starcraft 2 is going to have the oldschool gameplay (as the developers state), the Warcraft III mode of play is not likely to be there.

[Andrew]

So basically heroes just as they were in original Starcraft. A Unique unit that is involved with the storyline (kerrigan etc).

[Khan]

Well to me there's no reason to change the original formula just develop it and add to the game. All the mechanics were fine.

[Aristeas]

Battle for Middle Earth 2 did heroes right.  I'd love it if it were something like that...where you could create and customize the look and the powers of your own heroes, gaining one of those powers with each level. 

With the Terrans they could be technology based. One ability would be the ability to "mount" a bike like the marshal had in the original Starcraft...maybe they could mount up in a tank or an wraith depending on what they chose. They could select weapons skills and/or upgrades to these skills.  Another could be certain kinds of grenades and upgrades for those,lasers, etc.  If you wanted a very versatile hero you could select the bike, tank, and aircraft abilities for levels one through three but perhaps not have as many weapons skills or be able to upgrade as many or any skills to their maximum.  The Zerg could have different kinds of biologically based weapons for their heroes such as disease, spit projectile, a splattering flesh grenade of some kind that sprouts from the body of your hero, the ability to quickly spawn a band of zergling reinforcements, etc. They could also have the ability to take different forms that are comparable to the bike, tank, and wraith. Well...you get the idea.

[MrFlibble]

I kinda dislike such an approach. IMHO it would a) disctract from the regular units and strategies and b) make the heroes all too powerful and thus imbalance the game. Personally I wouldn't like to spend time on developing a "hero" instead of commanding the bulk of the "normal" units.

Starcraft game mechanics were good enough to keep them intact.

[Aristeas]

I understand what your saying about them being a distraction but why would they have to be overpowered?  And whether heroes are distracting or not will depend on the player.  If a player is distracted by them it only makes them easier to beat.  But really what I like with heroes is using them in single player games which is what I'm usually doing.  Against another player I'm not sure I'd bother with them, at least not until later in the game when I have resources to burn.

[MrFlibble]

I remember that in Warcraft III heroes were quite overpowered in singleplayer (maybe that was somewhat balanced with later patches, but I'm not sure). For example, you could cast Unholy Frenzy on Level 7-8 Undead Arthas and have him solely mow down almost everything (worked very good on the Siege of Dalaran mission). This is very different from what gameplay was in Starcraft.

[Aristeas]

Yeah...WC3's heroes are high power.  They'd definately have to change that.  I was thinking something along the lines of a Marshall Raynor...higher hit points than a regular unit and a bit more attack power but not so far over a regular units as to be unbelievable. As you level Raynor (or whoever) you don't get more hit points and attack power you would just pick up a skill with a level or improve a skill you already have.

I certainly don't have to have heroes to enjoy the game though.  I love Starcraft as it is and AoE2 is probably my favorite strategy game to date and it doesn't have heroes.  I just like heroes because when I'm playing single player they make me feel more invested in the game somehow.  

[MrFlibble]

Some more info on Starcraft II gameplay can be found at Campaign Creations. Just scroll down the main page for the article. There are some screenies as well.

The team introduced the Terran campaign for StarCraft II, featuring what they call a new advancement in storytelling mode. They did away with the mission briefings, and to immerse characters more into the story, you no longer play the role of the silent magistrate, judicator, or cerebrate, instead so far they have confirmed for the Terran you play the role of Jim Raynor. You are literally in the Hyperion, walking around between areas like the bridge, weapons center, and pub. Tychus, the character to introduce StarCraft II, appears to be an old friend of Jim Raynor, who has a few disagreements with Jim's methods.

In addition to being inside the Hyperion, you can view the Galaxy Map from the bridge. Here is your mission select system. To enter a mission, you select a world (and most likely a platform) to initiate your mission. To immerse players into StarCraft, the team has introduced tidbits of lore into the Galaxy Map, such as world history, to have players understand the universe of StarCraft much more in depth.

For the modders, the team did not fail. They informed that all previous units in StarCraft are modeled and included with the new StarCraft II map editor, which will allow those looking to create a more 'classic' gaming experience possible. Looking to port your infamous Hybrid campaign that got ten downloads? Well, here is your chance as you get to use all original StarCraft units. In terms of modding, that was all they informed the crowd, however the system itself showed a lot more to be known. One note right off the bat when looking at the in-game dialogue is a lip syncing system. No information has been released in it, but that is definitely an automated lip syncing system much like Valve's for Half-Life 2. The cut scenes shows amazing potential for detailed cinematic work, such as blurring of the screen and high-poly cinematics such as those inside the Hyperion.

On a final note, for the Terran campaign you play the role of Jim Raynor, mercenary. You command your Hyperion and go about the campaign. The team confirmed this gameplay aspect would not be duplicated for the Protoss or Zerg. They will each have distinct playing experiences to immerse players more inside the universe.

[gunner154]

Sweet. I've recently started playing Starcraft again, eating my way through the campaigns. Very nostalgic playing, though I don't know if I would think of getting Starcraft 2.

The problem with WC3 was that the heroes were designed to make a difference - a huge one. Thus, gameplay focused a lot on the heroes. It was a fairly nice idea, blending RPG with RTS, but it did get stale for a while (and irritating when the difference in hero levels made such a HUGE difference). Heroes in SC were much easier to stomach - simply stronger units that could take much more punishment and deal more as well, yet not being the focal point of gameplay.

Heroes gaining levels in Starcraft 2 would not fit too well, because leveling is a fantasy setting concept. In the science fiction context, you don't get a stronger goliath just because you killed a lot more units with it. Zerg units aren't terribly smart in general, so the leveling concept would be out of character for most of them. Imagine Kerrigan getting more powerful for killing more marines. I guess it works best for Protoss, but if the Terrans and Zerg don't have an adequate way to incorporate the hero system, it's not very fair for the Protoss too, eh? Besides, Protoss are highly reliant on machinery, so the Terran problem comes in as well.

Go figure.

[MrFlibble]

I don't know why there's so little interest in Starcraft 2 to be observed here, but nevertheless, the Zerg have been finally announced: Starcraft 2 Zerg Page.

I kind of await your comments and the like ;)

[Kirby Gotenks absorbed]

What's the Twilight Archon like? :D

[MrFlibble]

Sorry, I haven't played the beta demo.

[Kirby Gotenks absorbed]

I didn't even know their was a beta demo out yet

[Edric O]

What I really wonder is if they still have normal archons...

As for the Zerg announcement, it doesn't seem to tell us anything we didn't already know. If they announced a fourth race, THAT would be something.

[MrFlibble]

I didn't even know their was a beta demo out yet

I meant the demos they showed on E3 and such.

If they announced a fourth race, THAT would be something.

There won't be any playable fourth race. Perhaps in the singleplayer campaigns only ::) How about the Xel'Naga?

As for the Zerg, you can enjoy your favorite units in 3D for now ;) The new hydras look really menacing.

[gunner154]

Xel'Naga? Maybe knowing more about Samir Duran would be interesting ;)

[Kirby Gotenks absorbed]

What I really wonder is if they still have normal archons...

I don't think Normal or Dark archons are in, I think they've both been replaced by the Twilight Archon (Please give some clarification on this issue someone).

[Khan]

Can't you do it?

[Kirby Gotenks absorbed]

I saw a site that said there are now only Twilight Archons.

[Edric O]

Starcraft was never a hero-focused game; it was based on large armies. It seems Blizzard has kept the large army component in SC2, judging by their gameplay videos. Therefore I expect (and hope) that they won't introduce overpowered heroes in the campaign.

The whole concept of "gaining levels" for killing enemies is a weird exaggeration of the fact that you would normally gain experience and become a better fighter after killing more enemies. So it is realistic to gain a few additional hit points or weapon accuracy in exchange for kills. It is NOT realistic to gain extra damage (does your weapon fire different bullets after you used it for a while?) or new special abilities.

[gunner154]

I think that concept was more or less restricted to fantasy-based games. And people just like to "level up". It brings a smirk to their faces ;)