Bush wants to ban gay marriage again

[chatfsh]

Note to self:  Next time this topic comes up, don

[nemafakei]

I quite understand the 'there's no smoke without fire' argument. And I'd agree, there are fires. But there's also a lot of non-burning wood.

I just don't see the relevance of the idea that there exists a promiscuous culture of homosexuals, even if it can be argued to be more promiscuous than the promiscuous heterosexual culture. In fact, if anything, it's an argument that we *should* have gay marriage, as a solution to the problem.

To the "let them do what they want, I just don

[Dante]

Note to self:  Next time this topic comes up, don

[chatfsh]

I must preface what I am about to say with the following:  I

[Dude_Doc]

Honestly, in a few years the United States will become one of the worst countries in human history. About a half of the US population will probably move to Europe, since the US will have special "clerics" that make sure people obey "Das President" (dictator) and that all people are Christian. All other religions will be outlawed.

Further, gays and lesbians will be hunted down and killed. Muslims will become the "new Jews" of this century. Democracy will be outlawed. All parties but the Christian Party of the USA will become outlawed. The US will try to invade Canada and Mexico, as well as China.

This is the very future of the pathetic "United States"...

[GUNWOUNDS]

Chatfish said:

By all this, I

[GUNWOUNDS]

Dante Said:

You don't see men waiting outside women's bathrooms simply because women don't go there for sex. It isn't a social norm, for any community that I can think of. No, they go to street corners. Because that's where women do go for sex. See what I'm saying here? People will go to where they believe they can get sex. In the case of straight men, that's street corners and prostitute houses. Other people, being a little further down the stigma ladder, have to go elsewhere. There's really not much difference.

Response:  Except the prostitutes having sex with a man is a business proposition while a tea room is purely for mutual pleasure.  There's the difference.  If the prostitute could live a normal life she would, wheras the the two gay men could care less, they're happy to get it on.

Dante Said:

"I find vaginas repulsive...<snip>.... No i never have engaged in anal sex either or want to....<snip>... there goes that stereotype"

Response: Lets see.... you are single... you dont like vaginas... you dont like anal sex... i'm guessing you'll probably say next that you dont like oral either.  Well i didnt fall off the tomato truck yesterday.  You are a young man and i KNOW that you have a sex drive and that you have to relieve it somehow (aka masterbation to some sort of fantasy).  So lets stop with the facade of being a celibate monk.  Even monks arent celibate.  Many have been caught humping each other in the woods.  But thats another story.

Anyways... no matter how hard you try to paint yourself or any other homosexual man or heterosexual man in this day and age as sweet innocent people.... its not gonna work.  If you honestly believe that two gay men in the privacy of their own home are just going to hold hands and watch the sun rise and never "get it on" then you are as naive as they come.

Face it Dante... its not a steroetype.. its a fact of life... people have sex, gays have sex, and anal sex is a very core component of that.  So what i am saying can be viewed as LOGICAL and not merely brushed off as a stereotype.  Anyways, despite your description of yourself which tugs at Chatfish's heartstrings, one must honestly ask themselves...is a teenage virgin "homosexual" boy really the best candidate to be speaking on behalf of the gay community, as if he were the definitive voice?  You havent even got your feet wet yet to even know what you are defending.  Come back in 10 years once you had some experiences, and let us know what you think.  I find it silly that you would think homosexuals like yourself are the majority.  I hate to break it to you... but most homosexuals arent teenagers, virgins, or repulsed by anal sex. You Dante, are the minority.

Disclaimer: I dont mean to sound like i am focusing on you personally... however you used yourself as an example in your own post therefore you made yourself fair game to be discussed.

Chatfish said:

I

[Acriku]

Chatfish said:

By all this, I

[GUNWOUNDS]

You're still not taking into account the chemical change possible in homosexual men (or effeminate men), which would alter their "insatiable urges". Not to mention societal impacts, etc. Not having been a homosexual, your opinion here and basically a "guess" holds very little credibility.

First of all i am a man.... so i am not "Guessing"  I dont have to be a homosexual to know how horny a man is.  Also i dont have to be effeminate to know that sometimes men dont feel like having sex.  I completely understand both sides of the coin.  So i am not guessing and i have credibility, thank you very much.  What i do know is that if an effeminate man wasn't just "acting the part" , but actually had lowered testosterone levels (main libido factor) than most men... it still would be higher levels than any woman.  THEREFORE, my point still holds true.

  You are guessing that all gay couples have to be effeminate/noneffeminate matched.  Thats doesnt have to be true.  There is nothing in the homosexuality handbook that says that two "macho" homosexuals cant go at it. 

Guns

[Khan]

You only know how horny you are Guns you cant speak for every man on the planet. You also cant speak for every woman by saying their libido will be lower, and chatfish cant do this either, woman or no. Also the idea that men could do it all night long is slightly obviously faulty. For one thing the guys would get sore as well and guys just cant have sex endlessly, things need to 'recharge' if you see what I'm saying.

[nemafakei]

The crux of the matter seems this: Gunwounds argues that ALL men (including gays) are promiscuous, Dante says he's not, Gunwounds say's he's lying. Gunwounds, do you have any objective proof of such strong claims?

[Dante]

Post part 1:

I must preface what I am about to say with the following: I

[Dante]

Post part 2 (due to post length restrictions):

Yea thats basically my point in a nutshell. Gay men are seen as sexual deviants because the female element necessary to curb the insatiable  libido of a man isnt there. A hetero man can be stalled by his wife from excuses ranging from a headache to menstral cramps... or plain non-interest.

Whereas a man can go to his gay lover who has the same exact horny male-libido as him and get sex whenever he wants. Thats the point. A man has a higher libido than a woman in general and even if the woman has a high libido she can only do so much before she is sore. However two men could probably go at it till the sun rises.

Don't be ridiculous. Or failing that, learn what you're talking about. I will accept the point that men have a greater sexual drive than women, in general; but gay people are still human you know. 'Getting sore' is not solely the domain of women. Also, "get sex whenever he wants"? I think not. And since I'm talking from experience and you are not, I think I can say that with confidence.

Therefore it seems logical that gay men would be perceived as sexual zealots. Actually now that i think of it....many people dont even regard homosexuals as a real sexual orientation. Many people in society believe that most homosexuals are just heterosexuals who are tired of women cock-blocking them and want unbridled uninhibited sex. Thats another negative against the homosexuals (in society's view) and another reason why some people dont take them seriously as a minority.

How can homosexuals be treated as a true minority/community when so many people perceive them as deviant heterosexuals just trying to by-pass women to get more sex (basically bisexual).

Your error, I point out, not ours. To be turned down by women requires one to first be attracted to women, no? Which is not the case. Homosexual. Attraction to the same sex. Not just when the opposite sex turns us down. What self respecting man would get together with some guy that prostitutes turn down, anyway?

Bisexuals are simply fortunate to have twice the chances of getting a date.

In addition lesbians are viewed as women who are jaded by men's inability to commit coupled with many men's poor peformance in bed.  Many lesbians who used to be hetero claim that men have no idea what they are doing in bed and that their lesbian lover knows how to hit all the right spots.

People don't change their sexuality. They can change their minds about it, perhaps. "I thought I was attracted to men but really I'm a lesbian." Being dissatisfied with (all) men in bed says to me that something else was wanted all along. Unless of course these woman are bisexual, which of course there is nothing wrong with.

There is much more to society's view on homosexuality than just society being a bunch of "meanies". You have to address the fact that much of society doesnt view homosexuality as a true sexual orientation, minority, or community.

And with homosexuality being shown to be genetic BUT still predominantly a CHOICE here --> http://dune2k.com/forum/index.php?topic=18766.0  its clear that society probably has a legitimate reason for its perception. Reading the thread in that link above may be consider pre-requisite material for this thread methinks.

I wouldn't touch that seething cache of pseudoscience and hatred with a bargepole, as I made more than clear when I pushed to have its predecessor destroyed. Also, I decided long ago that 'much of society' is made up of people whose primary feature to distinguish them from a banana is about three IQ points. It's not my fault that stupid people believe things that are incorrect.

If you're confused about what i just said.. think about it like this. Hunger may be genetic but you stil CHOOSE what to stick in your mouth to eat. Just as sexual desire is genetic but who you choose to make love with, and form a relationship with is a choice. The link above expands on that.

Breathing is genetic too. Are you suggesting that it is voluntary as well?

Nema Said:

even if it can be argued to be more promiscuous than the promiscuous heterosexual culture. In fact, if anything, it's an argument that we *should* have gay marriage, as a solution to the problem.

Response:  Its also an arguement that gays shouldnt have marriage as the marriage would be a facade to exploit government tax breaks, privileges, and a mockery.

Or alternatively a method by which to ensure monogamy and remove the 'promiscuous' label.

Response:  Except the prostitutes having sex with a man is a business proposition while a tea room is purely for mutual pleasure. There's the difference. If the prostitute could live a normal life she would, wheras the the two gay men could care less, they're happy to get it on.

*Shrug* point. It could be argued that this is more honest, but that's beside the point really. Though entire communities (and secret societies) of heterosexuals have existed on a similar basis.

Dante Said:

"I find vaginas repulsive...<snip>.... No i never have engaged in anal sex either or want to....<snip>... there goes that stereotype"

Don't misquote me, or put words in my mouth. Going into more detail is meaningless, suffice to say that what you choose to pick out from my words does not display the original sentiment.

Response: Lets see.... you are single... you dont like vaginas... you dont like anal sex... i'm guessing you'll probably say next that you dont like oral either. Well i didnt fall off the tomato truck yesterday. You are a young man and i KNOW that you have a sex drive and that you have to relieve it somehow (aka masterbation to some sort of fantasy). So lets stop with the facade of being a celibate monk. Even monks arent celibate. Many have been caught humping each other in the woods. But thats another story.

Not having any particular attraction to vaginas is kind of part of being gay, don't you think? Since I don't have the same relish for this part of the discussion as you seem to, I'll just skip straight to the facts. What I, and anyone else, choose to do with our partners is an issue for us and us alone. And as much as you would like to impose your "You're gay therefore you must want anal sex" dogma on us, you will find that, as I have said before, there is more variety in the group than you might expect. Celibate? No. Just not a sex-crazed maniac like you want me to be.

Anyways... no matter how hard you try to paint yourself or any other homosexual man or heterosexual man in this day and age as sweet innocent people.... its not gonna work. If you honestly believe that two gay men in the privacy of their own home are just going to hold hands and watch the sun rise and never "get it on" then you are as naive as they come.

Perhaps you have evidence of this? Hmm? Go ahead, provide some. Can you prove that the last night I spent with a man was a sordid, sweat-filled stream of orgasms? Because if you can, both he and I will be very surprised.

Face it Dante... its not a steroetype.. its a fact of life... people have sex, gays have sex, and anal sex is a very core component of that. So what i am saying can be viewed as LOGICAL and not merely brushed off as a stereotype. Anyways, despite your description of yourself which tugs at Chatfish's heartstrings, one must honestly ask themselves...is a teenage virgin "homosexual" boy really the best candidate to be speaking on behalf of the gay community, as if he were the definitive voice? You havent even got your feet wet yet to even know what you are defending. Come back in 10 years once you had some experiences, and let us know what you think. I find it silly that you would think homosexuals like yourself are the majority. I hate to break it to you... but most homosexuals arent teenagers, virgins, or repulsed by anal sex. You Dante, are the minority.

You're putting words in my mouth again. Filling in the blanks that I refuse to fill in for you with words and concepts that prove your own points. And don't think that you're going to goad me into correcting these mistakes. I will just point out as I always have that they are there, and that your assumptions about me are, as ever, flawed.

You don't know any homosexuals, Gunwounds. I seriously doubt that there are any within your social circles. I, on the other hand, do. Male and female. Three of my best friends are bisexual, and no I haven't slept with any of them. I've met people who are different from me, certainly, but none of them are as you describe.

Best candidate? *looks around* ... Well it seems that I'm the only candidate. Ah well. Also, make up your mind? First you're telling me that I'm really a sex-crazed lunatic, then you say that I'm a virgin with no experience. The two concepts... they don't really mesh, do they? And then you go and cast doubt on my homosexuality at all? What are you trying to do, throw random theories out until one of them sticks? Basically I'm not a feather boa waving, mascara wearing, nightclub frequenting stereotype; and I think you have difficulty with that concept.

Furthermore, "tugs at Chatfish's heartstrings" ? I think she's quite capable of using her head as well as her heart, a fact that you don't seem to appreciate. Also, there isn't an 'i' in her name. You should have noticed by now.

Disclaimer: I dont mean to sound like i am focusing on you personally... however you used yourself as an example in your own post therefore you made yourself fair game to be discussed.

I use myself as an example because my life contains all the evidence I need. Coupled with that, it would be enormously unfair of me to mention details of my friends. This does not, contrary to your belief, give you carte blanche to question and demean either me or my lifestyle.

Chatfish said:

I'll play the part of the cooler head, if no one minds...<snip>...patience grasshoppers

Response:  Contrary to popular belief i usually do post with a cool head ... its just that i am very blunt in my speech. I also describe how things are ... and the truth hurts sometimes. I really am not sitting here hoping to offend Dante in order to get some immature shits and giggles, nor is my face red with anger. I just get tired of hearing the same "boo hoo discrimination" speech. 

    Its like listening to people who murdered someone ...and then they blame their dad for poor parenting... or when present day black criminals blame slavery for their mischief.... and now gays labelling a society's natural repulsion as some form of cultural bigotry, instead of addressing their own behavior and actions. Get real. Tired of the excuses and copouts. Take some responsibility. Also, no need to be the pacifist moderator chatfish (i like your flippant daughter role better). Nema has that job already, and the posts you see before you are common for this section of the forums, just letting you know in case you're new to the forums. Also a little friction never hurt the PRP... especially as dead as it has been lately. I'd rather see controversy in this thread than have people resort to the lame practice of making threads called "Post something controversial in here". One must balance the truth with just the right amount of controversy to keep things interesting, lest people fall asleep or avoid the PRP.  Watch and learn ...grasshopper  ;)

Blunt to the point of insult, Gunwounds. You could at least try to be less offensive, like the rest of us. Most of us. Whether you actually set out with the sole purpose of causing offense is not relevent because offense is caused. Do something about it.

I will acknowledge that there are elements of the gay community that are less than perfect, but to deny or excuse the overwhelming hatred that is directed toward us on such a flimsy basis is both unfair and indefencible.

We. Are. People. Too. If that doesn't say enough then there is little more that I could do to convince you.

[GUNWOUNDS]

Dante said:

It's a simple enough logic chain. All humans fear what they do not understand, in some way or another, and heterosexuals for the most part do not understand homosexuality.

Response:

On the contrary, i completely understand homosexuality, i dont fear, i dont think it will turn me into them, i just think its silly that people want special recognition based on their SEXUALITY.  Race and Gender are valid minorities.  Sexuality should not be something you are given special treatment for.  Nobody cares how you get your rocks off, or who you like to hold hands with.  To be honest ... i really dont even think race or gender should be minorities.  Why are people obsessed with getting special treatment based off of being a minority?  People bash me for being a christian.  But i dont ask for special treatment.  I dont ask for minority status.  I wouldnt want it even if i could get it.

Dante said:

I don't understand lesbians, but I certainly don't hate them. Nor fear them. I like to adopt a 'live and let live' attitude. "I may not understand it, but my understanding is not required."

Response:

I do understand lesbians, i dont fear or hate them.  I have no problem with them.  Even if i were to believe that it was a sin....that doesnt matter.  I dont hate sinners.  I just dislike the acts.  If my son tells a lie, i hate that he lied, but i dont hate HIM.  There is nothing wrong with disliking an act while being neutral towards the person. 

    Do you honestly think i hate you Dante?  If you were to get on Teamspeak and play Battlefield 2 online i would join your squad and play with you.  I would role play Vampire Masquerade with you.  If we lived in the same town i would go to a movie with you.  I would be your friend.  But i would not accept what you do.  And to force me to accept it or to try to convince me that you deserve special treatment because of it would be wrong on your part.  That

[Acriku]

On the contrary, i completely understand homosexuality, i dont fear, i dont think it will turn me into them, i just think its silly that people want special recognition based on their SEXUALITY.  Race and Gender are valid minorities.  Sexuality should not be something you are given special treatment for.  Nobody cares how you get your rocks off, or who you like to hold hands with.  To be honest ... i really dont even think race or gender should be minorities.  Why are people obsessed with getting special treatment based off of being a minority?  People bash me for being a christian.  But i dont ask for special treatment.  I dont ask for minority status.  I wouldnt want it even if i could get it.

Special recognition? They're just trying to get the same rights as heterosexuals, they are not trying to get special "no-one-else-has-them" rights. Keep that in mind.

[chatfsh]

I do not think that this is due to the existence of an ingrained disgust, I think it is due to an ingrained fear.

I

[nemafakei]

"I

[Dante]

On the contrary, i completely understand homosexuality, i dont fear, i dont think it will turn me into them, i just think its silly that people want special recognition based on their SEXUALITY.  Race and Gender are valid minorities.  Sexuality should not be something you are given special treatment for.  Nobody cares how you get your rocks off, or who you like to hold hands with. To be honest ... i really dont even think race or gender should be minorities. Why are people obsessed with getting special treatment based off of being a minority? People bash me for being a christian.  But i dont ask for special treatment. I dont ask for minority status. I wouldnt want it even if i could get it.

As Acriku has mentioned, we don't want 'special' rights. We want what everyone else has. Given the number of times I have stated this, I can only assume that you don't want to believe it. Also, you manifestly do not understand homosexuality. Your previous posts have made this more than clear.

I do understand lesbians, i dont fear or hate them. I have no problem with them. Even if i were to believe that it was a sin....that doesnt matter. I dont hate sinners. I just dislike the acts. If my son tells a lie, i hate that he lied, but i dont hate HIM. There is nothing wrong with disliking an act while being neutral towards the person. 

    Do you honestly think i hate you Dante? If you were to get on Teamspeak and play Battlefield 2 online i would join your squad and play with you. I would role play Vampire Masquerade with you. If we lived in the same town i would go to a movie with you. I would be your friend.  But i would not accept what you do. And to force me to accept it or to try to convince me that you deserve special treatment because of it would be wrong on your part. That

[Andrew]

Hot religious homophobe: Check

Crazy religious homophobe leader guy: Check

Two guys making fun of same homophobe: Check

(click for biggie to read tshirts)

What were we talking about again? I'm just gonna insert fun images, as once too much writing happens I get bored :P, Ooo look a shiny object!

Southern Baptists Nix Public Schools Exit

The proposal, offered by Roger Moran of Troy, Mo., and Texas author Bruce Shortt, came as many of the nation's 16.2 million Southern Baptists are concerned about how classrooms are handling subjects such as homosexuality and "intelligent design."

Instead of putting the exit strategy before delegates to the SBC's annual meeting, the denomination's resolutions committee called on members to "engage the culture of our public school systems" by exerting "godly influence," including standing for election to local school boards.

LOL

Oh noes! They are teaching science and discussing homosexuality! Our little religious sons and daughters might become infected and learn to think for themselves! God wouldn't want that, he'd rather them blindly follow the religion and ignore anything that the bible doesn't teach.

[GUNWOUNDS]

When i say "special rights" ... what i am referring to is that someone wants something based on the fact that he is part of SOMETHING.

Blacks should get jobs becuz they are human.  No because they are black.  We dont need special rules for people's different skin color.

Homosexuals can get married ceremonially... but INSIST on having a license becuz of their sexual preference.  They insist on tax benefits becuz of their sexuality.  They should get tax benefits becuz they are human.  Not becuz they wanna hump a dude.  We dont need special rules for people's different sexuality.  I would rather have all human get tax benefits....instead of some farmer coming up before congress one day with his sheep and lobbying for animal marriages.

I hate when people that bring up their race, i hate when people that bring up their sexality.

I cant stand the United Negro College Fund Commercials, I cant stand that there is a channel called BET (Black Entertainment CHannel)  How racist is that?  You dont see United Whitey funds or WET (White entertainment channel)

I have the same feelings when i see homosexuals in parades and in rallies.   You dont see hetero parades or hetero rallies.

Why cant people just ignore race, sexuality, etc, etc.   The only thing that should be addresses is handicapped people who need special assistance, due to disability.  Handicap parking spaces are fine...cuz they really do need special treatment.  But if you arent disabled.... then you dont deserve a special minority status that gives you benefits.

And frankly it all boils down to my original post.  The government can and will legislate whatever it wants.  Tax breaks are a privilege.  Not a right.  YOu have a right to a marriage ceremony... but a marriage license that gives you special benefits from the government is a privilege bestowed upon you by the government.

And lastly.... who says you cant legislate morality?  Some states say prostitution is illegal.  Some say its legal.  Some states say porn stores and strip clubs are illegal.  Some say its ok to have them on every block.  Every town community has decency laws or "morality laws" based on ordinances passed by Township committees... Some say you get fined for not cutting the grass in your front yard.... others dont care.  Basically these laws dictate what can and cannot happen in that area, including moral issues listed above.  So why doesnt anyone moan about these?  Why do people conveniently ignored that morality is legislated all over the Freaking  U.S., and that banning gay marriage is just an offshoot of that?  Why do people freak out about the gay thing only?

Guns

[GUNWOUNDS]

Oh noes! They are teaching science and discussing homosexuality! Our little religious sons and daughters might become infected and learn to think for themselves! God wouldn't want that, he'd rather them blindly follow the religion and ignore anything that the bible doesn't teach.

I wouldnt want my children discussing homosexuality in Public School.  Why does that need discussing in Public Schools?  Why does a school teacher need to express his/her view on sexuality?  That's definately something that a aprent is capable of teaching.  Not all parents can teach Calculus or Physics... but i think any parent can handle discussing sexuality with their kids.

And the Bible does discuss science and homosexuals.  The Bible actually has more science in it than any other holy text, and almost all religious texts discuss homosexuals....negatively.  Even Buddhists.  So whats your point Andrew?

Guns

[The Spac]

The ACT in Australia tried to change their laws to allow gay marriages. The federal government blocked it. Happend last week. Not sure if there are any Aussies here, but I thought I would mention it.

I work in retail, selling cosmetics, jewellery and that sort of thing, so 95% of the guys I work with are all gay, and don't say I'm assuming, steriotyping, cause I've been there for ages and thats what it is. So anyway what I'm saying is I work with gay guys all the time and see them with their partners and what not. Doesn't bother me, they can talk about some cute guy who just walked in with me and it doesn't bother me. They actually get uncomfortable when I'm more proactive saying isn't he a hottie. And their like your straight, and I'm like so what?

Anyway what I wanted to say is, while some want legal marriages and such, alot of the gay community at least the ones I know, and thats quite a few don't like being in the spotlight so much. Thought all I'm sure would like equal rights.

What I believe is not getting in the way of what other people want to do as long as their wishes don't userp mine. Which is why I'm fine with what they chooes to do in their spare time. But it just seems like to me it's going against that other natural law, the continuation of the human race, if gays wern't put down the way they are, then maybe the % of gays in the community would rise after maybe 200 years. Then saying if a certain amount of the population doesn't reproduce then the services they run crash because there isn't enough people around to support the system? (Although this planet sure doesn't need more pop.)

Doesn't bother me if gays get all the marriage rights, except children. When I see gays with custody of children it just makes me sick, only because it seems wrong, only because I was brought up, that a guy and a girl have to be together to have children(from a biological point of view) I have no particular hate towards seeing it, it's just like a gut feeling.

[Dante]

When i say "special rights" ... what i am referring to is that someone wants something based on the fact that he is part of SOMETHING.

Blacks should get jobs becuz they are human. No because they are black. We dont need special rules for people's different skin color.

Homosexuals can get married ceremonially... but INSIST on having a license becuz of their sexual preference. They insist on tax benefits becuz of their sexuality. They should get tax benefits becuz they are human. Not becuz they wanna hump a dude. We dont need special rules for people's different sexuality. I would rather have all human get tax benefits....instead of some farmer coming up before congress one day with his sheep and lobbying for animal marriages.

You seem to be missing the point. Homosexuals want the same rights as everyone else, and are being denied these rights due to their sexuality. It is society that creates the double standard, not us. Not 'special rights because we're gay' but 'equal rights because we're human.' As you said.

I hate when people that bring up their race, i hate when people that bring up their sexality.

I cant stand the United Negro College Fund Commercials, I cant stand that there is a channel called BET (Black Entertainment CHannel)  How racist is that? You dont see United Whitey funds or WET (White entertainment channel)

I have the same feelings when i see homosexuals in parades and in rallies. You dont see hetero parades or hetero rallies.

"I get sick of listening to straight people complain about, "Well, hey, we don't have a heterosexual-pride day, why do you need a gay-pride day?"  I remember when I was a kid I'd always ask my mom: "Why don't we have a Kid's Day? We have a Mother's Day and a Father's Day, but why don't we have a Kid's Day?" My mom would always say, "Every day is Kid's Day." To all those heterosexuals that considerate person about gay pride, I say the same thing: Every day is heterosexual-pride day! Can't you people enjoy your banquet and not piss on those of us enjoying our crumbs over here in the corner?"

~Rob Nash.

Why cant people just ignore race, sexuality, etc, etc. The only thing that should be addresses is handicapped people who need special assistance, due to disability. Handicap parking spaces are fine...cuz they really do need special treatment. But if you arent disabled.... then you dont deserve a special minority status that gives you benefits.

I'd be quite happy to ignore such things. Unfortunately, some people insist on treating others differently due to such things as race or sexuality. Not our fault.

And frankly it all boils down to my original post. The government can and will legislate whatever it wants. Tax breaks are a privilege. Not a right. YOu have a right to a marriage ceremony... but a marriage license that gives you special benefits from the government is a privilege bestowed upon you by the government.

That point has already been dealt with.

And lastly.... who says you cant legislate morality? Some states say prostitution is illegal. Some say its legal. Some states say porn stores and strip clubs are illegal. Some say its ok to have them on every block. Every town community has decency laws or "morality laws" based on ordinances passed by Township committees... Some say you get fined for not cutting the grass in your front yard.... others dont care. Basically these laws dictate what can and cannot happen in that area, including moral issues listed above. So why doesnt anyone moan about these? Why do people conveniently ignored that morality is legislated all over the Freaking  U.S., and that banning gay marriage is just an offshoot of that? Why do people freak out about the gay thing only?

Firstly because it causes ill feelings, harm, etc. Secondly because it is not fair. Thirdly because it shouldn't be a moral issue at all. Fourthly, the USA is not the only country in the world.

I wouldnt want my children discussing homosexuality in Public School. Why does that need discussing in Public Schools? Why does a school teacher need to express his/her view on sexuality? That's definately something that a aprent is capable of teaching. Not all parents can teach Calculus or Physics... but i think any parent can handle discussing sexuality with their kids.

Parents are dogmatic. Schools have a responsibility to be democratic and, though I know this phrase will come back to bite me, correct.

And the Bible does discuss science and homosexuals.  The Bible actually has more science in it than any other holy text, and almost all religious texts discuss homosexuals....negatively. Even Buddhists. So whats your point Andrew?

The sun goes round the earth and evolution is a tool of the devil. Very scientific.

Also, even Buddhists? Find some proof of that, if you would.

Finally, the whole adoption of children thing is an entirely different can of worms that I would prefer to avoid, if possible.

[Andrew]

Well, if they are teaching homosexuality, then I would have a problem with it (I don't see how they would teach it). Students discussing homosexuality, would be just as normal as students discussing banging some girl, or drugs, or a party, or the math test next week.

I was referring more to homosexuals being at public school and these religious parents not wanting their children there because homosexual students are at the same school. And thus they want their children at home because they are afraid these homo's will have an influence on them and they are evil because the bible says so?

I'd like to see these home schooled children who are protected from homos etc, get into the real world when they have to go to work and work with a homosexual, hell maybe even a married homo, I'm sure that would go over well.

[Anathema]

And lastly.... who says you cant legislate morality?  Some states say prostitution is illegal.  Some say its legal.  Some states say porn stores and strip clubs are illegal. Some say its ok to have them on every block.  Every town community has decency laws or "morality laws" based on ordinances passed by Township committees... Some say you get fined for not cutting the grass in your front yard.... others dont care.  Basically these laws dictate what can and cannot happen in that area' date=' including moral issues listed above.  So why doesnt anyone moan about these?  Why do people conveniently ignored that morality is legislated all over the Freaking  U.S., and that banning gay marriage is just an offshoot of that?  Why do people freak out about the gay thing only? [/quote']

I like how republicans and conservatives in general have always emphasised the importance of state rights against the federal government, but ditch their principles overboard when they have the opportunity to dictate their will over all, even traditionally blue states. What works for one state might not work for the other. If Texas is homophobic, yet California likes t3h buttsex, why enforce one conviction on both?

Also, if this amendment proposal passes, it will be the first article in the constitution that tells individuals what they can't do, instead of telling the government what they can't do. The only other such endevour I can recall is the prohibition amendment that some baptist nuts keep on proposing every once in a while, and gets shot down every time they try.