Duniverse Wiki?

[Dunenewt]

Infact, this demonstrate how you've not understood the intentions of the 3, and so how poor cultured and arrogant you are.

 

This sentence makes you look stupid because your primary objective is to belittle me mincing words with me.  However, we are talking in my language, and you're making yourself look stupid by trying to beat me with it.  When describing an adjective it is spelt poorly.  Stop trying to make yourself look clever at my expense, otherwise...te ne pentirai...

If your name is BH, yes you've failed totally even if you're a millionaire.

Again with your arrogance.

Wow.  That's incredible. It feels like you've written what I was going to write right after this comment...again with your arrogance!

Before even thinking of saying such things, first read ALL my Previous Posts in different threads, and THEN i repeat we can talk.

I can't be bothered.  Mi dispiace tanto

Ahaha, i dont' believe what i'm reading, he's the rightful heir ONLY BECAUSE he's the SON of Frank. Well, i think your right place would be in the medieval time where inheritance's succeding power was the norm.

Well who else would Frank entrust with his work?

Finally, the more i read you, the more i see how arrogant and "small developed" you are with your 6085 messages...bah.

Yes I bow down to your infinite wisdom.  How about reading my 6000+ posts before saying such things?  I mean, you asked the same of me...

[Dante]

See, this is exactly what I mean. Someone tries to place either the prequels or the Encyclopaedia as canon and immediately we get flames. Like TMA said, we're going to have to be professional about this, and that means avoiding conflict. Neutrality. Am I the only one willing to compromise here?

[TMA_1]

yeah totally

but on a side note I must tell all that in my opinion the Encyclopedia is much more complex and interesting. so nobody feel that I am siding with the prequels conceptually or creatively!

[3ngel]

This sentence makes you look stupid because your primary objective is to belittle me mincing words with me.

What?? You're paranoid, psycothic or what? Excuse me but this makes me even more laugh, indeed you've problem if you thought my intentions were those :D

Too beer for you? Too time in front of the monitor? Bah, pheraps :)

For all the other words and "quoted phrases" well i'll take it ironically as only a delirium of a disturbed man.

I hope we can speak again in a plain and constructive way of the subject of the thread, as we were doing before your ridiculous posts.

@Dante

Just to be precise, i'm on your side and it was not me who said:

Officially, the Prequels are canon, so must go on them.

[jros83]

ah and yet OFFICIALLY the prequils ARE canon. and as for "stating what is correct," what is correct is what is official and vice versa. so any wiki entry that took into account the prequils in the context of canon would have to state that they are officially canon, but that does not mean that no one could add anything stating that many Dune fans personally do not consider them canon for various reasons.

But nothing changes the fact that they are officially canon.

[Dante]

What is official is no longer what is correct. Unfortunately, the two are no longer synonymous. True, nothing will stop the prequels being officially canon, but we aren't affiliated with the official view, are we?

As I keep saying, best to have no reference to canon/non canon whatsoever. None at all. Not even 'the prequels are officially canon' or 'though the Encyclopaedia was recently debunked...' This point is a drop in the ocean compared to the massive volumes of data that will be present for the six original books. It should be easy enough to avoid potentially offensive references.

Or alternatively, we could just have three sections. One for the original novels, one for the Encyclopaedia, one for the prequels. Then people could bias away. This is not such a good idea because it would take more work, would be less comprehensive, would be redundant in places, and would be far less professional. I stand by my view. Complete neutrality.

[Dunenewt]

At the end of the day Gob/Madhi/Nema etc will have the final word, and I trust, and will go with, their judgement.

[Dante]

I won't follow a whimsical decision that I don't agree with. But I am supremely confident that this will not happen, and that those in charge will opt for a sensible policy.

[nemafakei]

Calm, please!

A wiki doesn't need to come to a judgement over what is or isn't canon. All it needs to do is present all the information in each of the sources, and let readers interpret. If we approach with a little forethought, we can do this with minimal redundancy. How about...

- We start any article with the information from Frank Herbert's novels (with the exception of subjects that do not occur in the original books, such as Kailea, or that are merely namedropped once or twice, in which case the FH reference need only be a subsection). We all agree that FH's books are canon, whatever we think about anything else. It is probably easiest if any other FH work (such as 'Eye') be included here with notes on the source.

- We then add information from the Dune Encyclopedia, under a heading (e.g. Krysknives in the Dune Encyclopedia). The DE predates the FH/KJA works, and, while I am not claiming it is more canon, it is more logical to say "The prequels concur with the DE" than "The DE concurs with the prequels". We only include information where it differs from or builds upon the original novels.

- We then include work by BH/KJA. We only include information where it differs from or builds upon the original novels; we note specific circumstances where it concurs with material net to the DE, not where they diverge.

- Next, we include any information from the Lynch film.

- Next comes the two miniseries. This can be one section.

- Next, we add information from the games (which are clearly the least authoritative) in the following order:

  - Dune I (similar plot and chronological priority)

  - FH's Dune (much closer in plot than the RTS games, grouping with DI is more appropriate)

  - Dune II

  - Dune 2000

  - E:BFD

Now, are there any objections to this?

[3ngel]

I can agree on all the points, at the condition that things are not too much mixed up.

Too much schemes of notes/subnotes/references complicates and make things difficult to understand.

But a little of cross-reference (where possible) i think is quite good.

[Dante]

Calm, please!

A wiki doesn't need to come to a judgement over what is or isn't canon. All it needs to do is present all the information in each of the sources, and let readers interpret. If we approach with a little forethought, we can do this with minimal redundancy. How about...

- We start any article with the information from Frank Herbert's novels (with the exception of subjects that do not occur in the original books, such as Kailea, or that are merely namedropped once or twice, in which case the FH reference need only be a subsection). We all agree that FH's books are canon, whatever we think about anything else. It is probably easiest if any other FH work (such as 'Eye') be included here with notes on the source.

- We then add information from the Dune Encyclopedia, under a heading (e.g. Krysknives in the Dune Encyclopedia). The DE predates the FH/KJA works, and, while I am not claiming it is more canon, it is more logical to say "The prequels concur with the DE" than "The DE concurs with the prequels". We only include information where it differs from or builds upon the original novels.

- We then include work by BH/KJA. We only include information where it differs from or builds upon the original novels; we note specific circumstances where it concurs with material net to the DE, not where they diverge.

- Next, we include any information from the Lynch film.

- Next comes the two miniseries. This can be one section.

- Next, we add information from the games (which are clearly the least authoritative) in the following order:

  - Dune I (similar plot and chronological priority)

  - FH's Dune (much closer in plot than the RTS games, grouping with DI is more appropriate)

  - Dune II

  - Dune 2000

  - E:BFD

Now, are there any objections to this?

No objections here. Thank you for justifying my confidence.

Edit: Figured I might as well quote Nema's post in order to save people checking the previous page. Because I'm nice like that.

[nemafakei]

3ngel, don't worry, the articles themselves will appear very simple, and will be easy to construct - I'm just giving some reasoning and major exceptions. It'll certainly be easier to read than peppering the articles with "according to...". Bear in mind that most articles will have only one or two of these headings to begin with.

e.g...

House Ordos

  Preamble

House Ordos in the DE

  Overview, perhaps reference to Wallach heraldry

House Ordos in Dune II

  Excerpt from DII manual, overview of philosophy and ideas.

House Ordos in Dune 2000

  Differences from and developments since DII

House Ordos in E:BFD

  Differences from and developments since D2000 (/DII)

[3ngel]

I see, at this point don't forget the indentation of subparagraphs, that in these situations is fundamental.

Oh one question, i haven't understood well, but we can edit the various topic of our interest, like in wikipedia (pheraps with a registration)?

[Egeides]

Dunenewt, how about Frank is considered the author of the first books and Brian the authors of the prequel? ;D

You consider the son's authorship as you like, I will take it as fanfiction claiming Frankish elements. Some shall judge that it has lots of Frank's material, some little.

[Sober]

Dunenewt, how about Frank is considered the author of the first books and Brian the authors of the prequel? ;D

You consider the son's authorship as you like, I will take it as fanfiction claiming Frankish elements. Some shall judge that it has lots of Frank's material, some little.

No, because, as far as we know, FH had notes on the prequel era. I still stand on my point that the prequels are tentative canon, as we don't know if and how his notes were changed (or warped, some would say) to become the prequels we know now. I also stand by the fact the DE is not pure canon either; be skeptical. Even if FH wrote it all, it isn't like Dune or any of the other 6, it's more like he copied a piece of work that existed from the post-GEoD/pre-Heretics era and sold it. Anything that was written will be accurate to what the authours (of the Duniverse) wanted people reading it to know. Bias.

And on the proposed organization we have now: It's good, lots of room to go into everything.

[Dunenewt]

One thing.  Mention the Prequels then the DE.

[Dante]

I think the explanation for why it was the Encyclopaedia first was sensible.

[driftingcloud]

Dunenewt, how about Frank is considered the author of the first books and Brian the authors of the prequel? ;D

You consider the son's authorship as you like, I will take it as fanfiction claiming Frankish elements. Some shall judge that it has lots of Frank's material, some little.

I agree. Regardless of what the notes may or may not contain, the only definitive answer we can get from Frank is that he authored the six books that he wrote himself. Everything else is, well, everything else and should be treated as such. Drop the dreaded "canon" word and never mention it again.

btw, I almost threw up when I read the last words of MC.

[Egeides]

No, because, as far as we know, FH had notes on the prequel era.

Ok, so if I write something from those notes I am going to be cannon? The notes might be released some day, who knows.

driftingcould, what are those last words exactly?

[driftingcloud]

driftingcould, what are those last words exactly?

Here's the last paragraph:

With a smile, Ishmael looked around, from face to face. "We can live on this world as we choose, making our own lives and future. We shall never be slaves again!" He sighed with immense pride, and added, "From this day forward we shall call ourselves the <i>Free Men</i> of Arrakis."

It was the last four words that made me want to spew...The italics are part of the actual text.

[Dunenewt]

C'mon people the wiki is up now so get contributing!

http://wiki.dune2k.com/wiki/Main_Page

[3ngel]

Wow, i dont' believe it. I'm going to to throw myself in it :)

[NHJ BV]

I wrote a very small article on gholas. I don't own the books, so it's from my head only. I figured that once there is something in place it will probably get expanded or corrected faster than someone writing a complete article from scratch.

[Dunenewt]

Come on people...little more effort please.

[Colonel_Worf]

Hmm... this is going to be weird when we start getting into what everyone believes as canon and whatnot.