Would you kill ... for God?

[Acriku]

A simple question. Would you kill for God? Let's say that the clouds parted and booming voice spoke to you with your name, and said he was God, and told you to kill somebody for him. Would you do it?

[lowzeewee]

Acriku, that depends on whether God will give me a place in "heaven" in return for me doing him a favour. What if I don't? Will I be sent to hell when I die?

[Dante]

If he really were God? Hmm. That would involve proving his existance, so we'll take that as a given... But God, being all-knowing, would know everything about me... Hmm again.

Probably, yes. But not just because God told me to, but because there would be some other incentive (like burning for eternity for not following the whims of God). And also it would be nice to bump off a few people and actually have divine backup.

[Acriku]

There's no room for more questions. He told you to kill someone for him, and you must either perform that task or not. If we had to think about it, disobeying God would probably sacrifice the chair in heaven with your name engraved on the front... After all, to sin is to disobey God.

Dante - I guess we'll have to take it up to faith as to whether or not he's God ;-) Thanks for your answer. Now, how far does that answer go? Would you kill a friend, an important politician, a relative? If God said so, of course.

[Dante]

Well God, if we believe he's God, would be all good and therefore would have a really good reason. So probably, yeah. I'd murder just about anyone at his order, knowing that if they were good then I would see them again and if they were not then I would not want to. Trust me, if I were a believer then I would be the worst kind.

Edit: Thinking in such black and white terms is oddly refreshing. I can see why so many people do it.

[Dragoon Knight]

I wouldn't.  Mainly becuase I remember the tale of Abraham and his son, which put me off the whole idea of God.

"KILL YOUR SON."

"Why?"

"BECAUSE I SAID SO."

"But..."

"DO YOU QUESTION THE LORD?!"

"N-no!" *Grabs brat* "Dieeeee!"

"WAIT, WAIT... I WAS JUST MESSING.  YOU PASS THE TEST."

I believe that there is a place you go after you die, but not neccessarily that there is a higher power governing it.  If, however, we are assuming that God exists, then my answer still stands.  I'd be like "Ohhhh no you don't, you tricksy Lord, you."  There's no way that a "good" God would command you to really kill anyone; anything that says he does is hypocrisy.  One of the reasons the Bible makes me laugh.

[Acriku]

Well God, if we believe he's God, would be all good and therefore would have a really good reason. So probably, yeah. I'd murder just about anyone at his order, knowing that if they were good then I would see them again and if they were not then I would not want to. Trust me, if I were a believer then I would be the worst kind.

Edit: Thinking in such black and white terms is oddly refreshing. I can see why so many people do it.

Gotta tell ya, I often find that if I were a believer, I, too, would be the worst kind (ironically the best kind from the perspective of the religion).

Well this Good God, as you say Dragoon, killed who knows how many people himself with Sodom, Gomorrah, and Noah's Flood. So, it would not be inconsistent to say that he would command you to kill someone. He would not be above that, at all.

[Dragoon Knight]

Well this Good God, as you say Dragoon, killed who knows how many people himself with Sodom, Gomorrah, and Noah's Flood. So, it would not be inconsistent to say that he would command you to kill someone. He would not be above that, at all.

Exactly; hypocrisy.  The Bible is nothing more than fiction.  I'd rather read about the exploits of Reactorfighter than peruse the Holy Book, simply because it changes its mind half way through.  It's written by God knows how many different people, and quite frankly does not provide a coherent explanation of the true message of Christianity.

As I see it, the basic tenets of Christianity are not the kind of propagandist bullshit that Jack Chick comes out with.  Rather, I understand Christianity as being the practice of believing in a loving God, who forgives those willing to admit what they've done wrong, and work to repent / not do it again.  Preaching peace, love thy neighbour, all that jazz; none of this Old Testament crap or anything regarding racism / sexism that the Bible spews forth.

[GUNWOUNDS]

Human life is just a mortal shell.. if we really have immortal spirits why are humans so hung up on the earthly body?

[The Spac]

If god wants someone killed he sure has power enough to make that happen himself.

[Dante]

The Lord moves in mysterious ways... Who are we to understand the motives of such a being?

Boy, spouting this claptrap and knowing that I don't have to find any reasonable evidence or backup really is a good feeling. I put so much work into my arguments usually, but this is so easy. It's like juggling cannonballs all your life before suddenly discovering that it can be done with beanbags.

Hell yeah, if I had official sanction to murder people then I'd be happy as a pyromaniac in a fireworks factory. Just imagine what kind of authority God could grant... It's kind of scary to know that some people have actually believed that though. Not yet come into contact with Pulp Fiction.

You are experts in taking things out of context, but whatever, protestants were making it for half a millenium, so what should I await from their descendants...

Don't look at me. I was given a question and answered in the context of the question.

[Acriku]

So, your answer is yes Gunwounds? After all, what you wrote could be used to justify just about anything - the holocaust, the genocide in Africa, etc. If they're ok, then what's wrong with killing someone if God said so, eh?

[nemafakei]

Even if it were proven that the source of the instruction were god, I would not kill. Why? Because there's no reason to believe that an all-powerful creator is good. I'd need to know that this god was a fundamentally good entity.

[nemafakei]

From a personal perspective, yes.

Not necessarily from a moral one.

[GUNWOUNDS]

nema you dont have to prove the god is good.... you only have to prove the entity is god. if it were proven that the instructions came from God then it would be obvious that it would be morally sound.

[Dante]

It could be argued that good is merely a twisted version of evil, if one is arguing that evil is merely a perversion of good. After all, one cannot exist without the other. This is why I don't think that either really exists.

[Egeides]

Sorry, Jesus didn't ask me to be blind and contradictory. I have the Commandments and Abraham's case too. Or Jesus saying that "devils would not cause good" which philosophically/ideologically (or simply taken as for itself) says alot for the one seeing the full implication.

Alright, if I know the guy is going to press to throw atomics... then it's a usual rational case so thanks God for giving me his address (while on LSD ::)).

[Dante]

Wasn't there something in the bible about a prophet who told a man it was the will of god that the man should stike him? And the man said no, so the prophet told him that he'd be eaten by a lion for disobeying the will of god (i.e. not hitting the prophet). And then the man was eaten by a lion. All because he didn't want to hit a man of god.

[Acriku]

nema you dont have to prove the god is good.... you only have to prove the entity is god. if it were proven that the instructions came from God then it would be obvious that it would be morally sound.  God has to be good... we've been thru this in many other threads before.  A fundamentally evil god cannot exist.  Evil cannot exist by itself....it isnt independent.... it has to take something that is good and distort/pervert/taint it...such as satan.  He doesnt create anything... he only takes things already created and taints them.  That is not the definition of a God.  And since a "god" would be all powerful and independant and not need to steal from some other entity we can safely assume that God is fundamentally good...so therefore the only thing we would need to know is whether or not God really said it or if it were a non-deity such as satan.

You call good the default. But the default cannot be good. The default "is." Good and evil are the same thing, subjective alterations of what is. You're using the wrong term.

As for you acriku if you re-read my post (the second half of it) you will see i said that God does not allow us to kill casually for reason X, Y, and Z.

Since when would God call anyone to kill someone casually? If God wills it, then it is far from casual and indeed serves a great purpose.

To be honest i think one has to be very in tune with their spirituality in order to even communicate with God in the first place...

Or in tune with their personality disorder.

So to be quite frank i think this scenario you have brought up is totally bunk anyway.  If we are living in an Era of Jesus's grace then assassination commands from God would not be logical.

It's interesting how you claim to know God's intentions and his nature enough to say that he would not ask someone to kill a person for him.

[Jack Leaf]

Now, if the skies opened and a choir of angels would sing before God will boom to me: "Son, I am your god and I command you to kill the person x," I would do as commanded.

Since God is the highest possible authority and also the creator, disobeying would make no sense. It's simply because God is your god and why will you disobey under the direct command of God? It doesn't matter if the intention is "good" or "evil," since the commander is your own god.

[GUNWOUNDS]

Yes acriku the original thing "is" .... but it is also "good" because it seems logical that a perfect being would create something that has some sort of worth or magnificent quality.

[Dante]

Good cannot exist without evil, else how would good define itself? The same applies vice versa.

[Jack Leaf]

Good cannot exist without evil, else how would good define itself? The same applies vice versa.

Also, how do you even define those things? "Another man's defeat is another man's victory."

[Dude_Doc]

A simple question. Would you kill for God? Let's say that the clouds parted and booming voice spoke to you with your name, and said he was God, and told you to kill somebody for him. Would you do it?

Wouldn't you? He is god after all... what more is there to say? I believe that in any case, every man and woman on the planet has his or her soul as a first priority on the list. Everyone does anything to keep their soul, to keep on existing. If you don't exist, then what does it matter? As long as the soul exist, you would let the whole world end, kill anybody at anytime. That is kind of a bargain. On the other hand, if God told you to kill, and that He also revealed that there is no soul, then maybe we could ask the question if one would kill, since one wouldn't get anything out of it.

And also it would be nice to bump off a few people and actually have divine backup.

What if that person is someone you love, like your mother or girlfriend/boyfriend? What if you killed them and they wouldn't possibly forgive you for what you did?

[Dante]

Also, how do you even define those things? "Another man's defeat is another man's victory."

A point that I have made myself, many times before. Good and Evil in an objective sense do not exist. You can't defeat me with my own arguments.

What if that person is someone you love, like your mother or girlfriend/boyfriend? What if you killed them and they wouldn't possibly forgive you for what you did?

*Shrug* Remember that I'm playing Devil's Advocate here. My line of reasoning goes that if God existed and if God were to give me an order to kill and if the order were proven to be from God, the all powerful all seeing all knowing all good entity, then I would carry it out in the firm conviction that I was doing the most beneficial thing for all concerned. Maybe even the 'right' thing, in moral terms, though even in this argument I hesitate to say that.

Thing is, I don't believe in God. I don't believe I could get orders from him, I don't believe there is a moral right, I don't believe in divine judgement, and I certainly don't believe in blindly following the whims of another. Therefore, the above argument is theoretical only. In theory, I wouldn't care who it was. God's will would override mine. In actuality, my will is paramount.

And being honest, I expect that even if it were God the almighty that gave me a direct order to kill family, I probably wouldn't carry it out. Murdering strangers is all very well, but some things even I don't like. I have few principles, so I'd like to think that those I do have are important.