Mahdi Posted September 24, 2005 Share Posted September 24, 2005 I was reading through some versions of hell, fromt he typical guys in red pajamas with pitchforks to the official Roman Catholic out of God's sight and love and I came across an interesting interpretation I'd never heard of before.The Eastern Orthodox interpretation.The doctrine of the Eastern Orthodox church claims there is no hell. There is only heaven. Everybody who dies is brought to this heaven where they experience God's love, saint and sinner alike.However, those who have sinned may find this love intolerable, not because God is punishing them, but out of guilt for there own sins, and thus God's love itself causes the person to experience a state of hell from which the person will ultimately repent there sins and come to forgive themselves, thus allowing them to enjoy God's love, or they will become more bitter and resentfull and come to curse God for eternity, thus always experiencing his love as torture.That was a wonder of a run on sentence. I could correct it, but meh.I'm not saying that is the case, I just stumbled on it and had never heard of this theory before. I thought it was very interesting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GUNWOUNDS Posted September 24, 2005 Share Posted September 24, 2005 That is pretty interesting twist on hell. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mahdi Posted September 24, 2005 Author Share Posted September 24, 2005 There are a few issues I have with it as well (not the same as yours, which I can't agree with as beign flaws in it) I just thought it was a cool idea I had never heard of before, despite it being hte official doctrine of the Eastern Orthodox Church who philosophers and theologians are indoubitably more intelligent and better versed on the subject than you, I, or anyone else visiting this site ;)Did I just challenge myself for the #1 run on sentence in this thread? It must be close.Meh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GUNWOUNDS Posted September 24, 2005 Share Posted September 24, 2005 Oh sure their theologians and philosophers are more versed in the issues than us...probably even know greek and latin and hebrew..... but when what they say conflicts with what Jesus himself said.... which is the centerstone of the religion then its safe to call it a "flaw". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dude_Doc Posted September 25, 2005 Share Posted September 25, 2005 It is interesting to think of "hell" as a "state of being", rather than a physical place. I think hell is closer to the feeling of loosing someone very close, to see a person die, or being dependent on drugs which you can't get (?). This makes sence in the way that in order to inflict a physical pain on someone, logically, there must be a physical body, thus nerves, in order to feel that pain. So, it would mean (but not necessary) that a person must be reborn in hell, in order to suffer (although we are talking about supernatural powers at play).But since the soul is eternal, and can feel much greater pain such as sadness, anger and hate, I'd say this is the kind of hate I'd inflict on humans should I be the devil :) ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Acriku Posted September 26, 2005 Share Posted September 26, 2005 That's an interesting look at Hell, Mahdi. I have a question that deals with Hell, how does a soul feel pain or emotion? It's immaterial, and "ethereal." Pain and emotion are very materiallistic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mahdi Posted September 26, 2005 Author Share Posted September 26, 2005 That's an interesting look at Hell, Mahdi. I have a question that deals with Hell, how does a soul feel pain or emotion? It's immaterial, and "ethereal." Pain and emotion are very materiallistic.I dunno, ask God. Another interpretation I came across was that Hell was oblivion. Worms and dirt and no more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VigilVirus Posted September 26, 2005 Share Posted September 26, 2005 What the hell? I'm Eastern Orthodox and I've never heard this before in my life... ;D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Acriku Posted September 26, 2005 Share Posted September 26, 2005 Your last interpretation is pretty much the Jewish perspective, at least from what I was taught in Hebrew school (for only a couple years). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caid Ivik Posted September 26, 2005 Share Posted September 26, 2005 What the hell? I'm Eastern Orthodox and I've never heard this before in my life...Well, same I had never heard about "typical guys in red pajamas with pitchforks to the official Roman Catholic out of God's sight and love"... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GUNWOUNDS Posted September 27, 2005 Share Posted September 27, 2005 That's an interesting look at Hell, Mahdi. I have a question that deals with Hell, how does a soul feel pain or emotion? It's immaterial, and "ethereal." Pain and emotion are very materiallistic.yes i second Mahdi's "ask God" comment. But i can tell you that after Jesus brought a man back from the dead... people asked him what it felt like to be dead and whether he prefered.... this life or the afterlife... and he replied surprisingly that there wasnt much difference. I cant be sure what he meant by that. I am assuming he meant that he was able to walk around and see and hear things... and probably "feel". Perhaps God anthropomorphizes the spiritual realm for us so that we can experience it in a way we can understand. Many people who have near-death experiences say that they have talked to Jesus in a field or other such "natural" environments.The closest example i can describe for you is if you have ever seen the movie "contact" with Jodie Foster http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0118884/ where she goes to meet aliens... and they basically create an earth-like environment and appear to her as her father and talk to her. She asks why they did this... they said it would be the easiest way for her to communicate with them. I am not saying that there isnt more to heaven or hell but i am guessing it wouldnt be totally foreign to us...probably a mixture.... sorta like when Peter was given a brief glimpse of heaven.... he said that there were things he could not express in words....but then there were some things he could describe. So its probably a mixture of things recognizable and foreign. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faetarius Posted October 1, 2005 Share Posted October 1, 2005 Gunwounds: So what the bible states is that if you get a few things wrong in life, (Feel jealous of your neigbours new sportscar, failed to turn in a Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GUNWOUNDS Posted October 2, 2005 Share Posted October 2, 2005 i already answered this question in another post in another thread.... please read the other threads before asking the same question over and over and over again... here is the post you need to read ----> http://dune2k.com/forum/index.php?topic=17868.msg288164#msg288164 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faetarius Posted October 2, 2005 Share Posted October 2, 2005 So, in your opinion, god is an unforgiving bastard who doesn't in fact love any human being on earth, as we are all imperfect. And that the only reason we get into heaven at is is by saying we're sorry, and then getting jesus to talk to the overall god? That doesn't exactly convince me that the christian god is andthing more than "divine wrath made manifest". I think I'll just stick to philosophy and Buddhism Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GUNWOUNDS Posted October 3, 2005 Share Posted October 3, 2005 I guess you cannot understand the term "Absolute Good"Anyways... buddhism says there is a God but we cannot ever know him... or comprehend him..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Acriku Posted October 3, 2005 Share Posted October 3, 2005 There are some sects of Buddhism that do not involve a god. Perhaps he prescribes to one of them...yes i second Mahdi's "ask God" comment. But i can tell you that after Jesus brought a man back from the dead... people asked him what it felt like to be dead and whether he prefered.... this life or the afterlife... and he replied surprisingly that there wasnt much difference. I cant be sure what he meant by that. I am assuming he meant that he was able to walk around and see and hear things... and probably "feel". Perhaps God anthropomorphizes the spiritual realm for us so that we can experience it in a way we can understand. Many people who have near-death experiences say that they have talked to Jesus in a field or other such "natural" environments.It's hardly sane to take the word of somebody who was just brain dead for a minute or two. Even if he does anthropomorphise the after-life realm, it doesn't answer the question of how the soul can feel pain or pleasure. If it has any sort of interaction with the material world, what is the bridge? I know you do not have these answers, because the idea of a soul is rediculous anyway. The answer to the soul came when we discovered the mind. The soul theory was and still is not needed anymore. Holding onto traditional explanations in spite of less traditional but more actual explanations is stagnation and death (of knowledge, not you :P). The closest example i can describe for you is if you have ever seen the movie "contact" with Jodie Foster http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0118884/ where she goes to meet aliens... and they basically create an earth-like environment and appear to her as her father and talk to her. She asks why they did this... they said it would be the easiest way for her to communicate with them. I am not saying that there isnt more to heaven or hell but i am guessing it wouldnt be totally foreign to us...probably a mixture.... sorta like when Peter was given a brief glimpse of heaven.... he said that there were things he could not express in words....but then there were some things he could describe. So its probably a mixture of things recognizable and foreign.I saw the film, and hated it the first time. After that, though, I loved it (I was older then). I imagine that if the soul existed, it would be most familiar with heaven, and God. Just my thought, anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faetarius Posted October 3, 2005 Share Posted October 3, 2005 Minor point, Buddhism doesn't have a god. It's a technically moral philosophy, not a religion. And bear in mind that simply because you have a certain belief about christianity, that doesn't mean that all the other world religions are any less worthy. You just choose to elevate yours above the others by saying that: "all those religions do is deny the personal side of God (JESUS) and leave you to contend with the Impersonal Side of God (The Moral Law)". This is a pretty big statement, and even if it is true then that may just mean that they see things from a different angle; possibly due to a less totalitarian viewpoint.And this is a theological debate, not character assassination. Remember that before you accuse me of being "a crybaby who throws insults around". I have not insulted you or your religion, merely condensed what you yourself said into a more compact form. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faetarius Posted October 3, 2005 Share Posted October 3, 2005 This site will explain what I mean about Buddhism being (as far as I can tell) a more accepting and understanding viewpoint, one not relying on a divine being or on a single holy saviour like jesus.http://www.religioustolerance.org/buddhism4.htm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caid Ivik Posted October 3, 2005 Share Posted October 3, 2005 hm, it could have...http://www.sacred-texts.com/bud/mcb/index.htm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spectral Paladin Posted October 3, 2005 Share Posted October 3, 2005 Gunwounds you reject other religions because they do not present you with the personal side of God...And yet you 've said in another thread that your rejection of the universe wont change anything....So if there is just the impersonal side of God, you won't change anything by praying to Jesus because you deem it right that there is a personal side as well.In short, the fact that in christianity there is a personal side of God is not reason enough alone why it is the proper religion instead of some other. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faetarius Posted October 3, 2005 Share Posted October 3, 2005 Thanks Caid, I hadn't found that site :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GUNWOUNDS Posted October 6, 2005 Share Posted October 6, 2005 Gunwounds you reject other religions because they do not present you with the personal side of God...And yet you 've said in another thread that ...So if there is just the impersonal side of God, you won't change anything by praying to Jesus because you deem it right that there is a personal side as well.In short, the fact that in christianity there is a personal side of God is not reason enough alone why it is the proper religion instead of some other.Actually it is reason enough.Because it is pointless to have a faith where there is no personal side to God. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GUNWOUNDS Posted October 6, 2005 Share Posted October 6, 2005 There are some sects of Buddhism that do not involve a god. Perhaps he prescribes to one of them...It's hardly sane to take the word of somebody who was just brain dead for a minute or two. Even if he does anthropomorphise the after-life realm, it doesn't answer the question of how the soul can feel pain or pleasure. If it has any sort of interaction with the material world, what is the bridge? I know you do not have these answers, because the idea of a soul is rediculous anyway. The answer to the soul came when we discovered the mind. The soul theory was and still is not needed anymore. Holding onto traditional explanations in spite of less traditional but more actual explanations is stagnation and death (of knowledge, not you :P). I saw the film, and hated it the first time. After that, though, I loved it (I was older then). I imagine that if the soul existed, it would be most familiar with heaven, and God. Just my thought, anyway. When i say soul i am not referring to the brain or the mind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Acriku Posted October 6, 2005 Share Posted October 6, 2005 And what is the spiritual difference between us two right now that affects us on Earth? Or does the awakening of the spirit only have its effect in the afterlife?Your allusion to what the spirit is, describes to me just that of created hope. The more you "communicate" or pray to God, the more you become hopeful of his existence and relationship with you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GUNWOUNDS Posted October 6, 2005 Share Posted October 6, 2005 Minor point, Buddhism doesn't have a god. It's a technically moral philosophy, not a religion. And bear in mind that simply because you have a certain belief about christianity, that doesn't mean that all the other world religions are any less worthy. You just choose to elevate yours above the others by saying that: "all those religions do is deny the personal side of God (JESUS) and leave you to contend with the Impersonal Side of God (The Moral Law)". This is a pretty big statement, and even if it is true then that may just mean that they see things from a different angle; possibly due to a less totalitarian viewpoint.And this is a theological debate, not character assassination. Remember that before you accuse me of being "a crybaby who throws insults around". I have not insulted you or your religion, merely condensed what you yourself said into a more compact form.I thought Buddha *himself* said that he believed there was a God but that we could never know him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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