The Essence of War

[TMA_1]

What traits or actions actually cause a people or nation to fight with rival groups or nations? Obviously there are many reasons for the hundreds of wars faught between two or more identities in human history, but I think that like all things in life, it can get summed down to basic components.

Some people say that most wars really are just caused by misunderstandings, or national pride and ego. Some people say it just boils down to greed, which is probably more on target in my opinion. What do you guys think it is that sparks a human being to kill another person?

Since I am a literalist Christian, I believe in the sin nature, and this belief fits perfectly in the basic theory of summing down war into covetousness. What do you guys think though?

[Tako]

all wars are either the cause of politics or religion, all

look them up and you will see it all comes domn to that, some even have both

[Dante]

I don't think greed is the underlying factor of human conflict. After all, there have been wars fought over principles as well as over territory and resources. At first, I would think that man simply wishes to get what he wants. If this is at the expense of others, then so be it. But then again, there have been wars fought when neither side wished to take part, but felt that they had a duty to.

I think that conflict spawns instead simply from an inherent tendancy towards violence. Groups of otherwise sensible people easily give way to mob mentality, which is notoriously violent. Countries work the same way, but on a much larger scale. Certainly individuals have their own temprements, but gatherings of humans inevitably produce conflicts of character and desires. Given time and pressure, which is what countries are good at, violence is inevitable.

Unless, of course, the pressure is released, or imaginary...

Incidentally, a friend of mine holds the opinion that all wars, without exception, have been caused, at least in part, by religion. The only example I could produce that she didn't have an answer for was World War One.

[TMA_1]

yeah but even in religious wars, coveting territories or lands was key. The catholic church (among other things) wanted to retake the holy land, and the muslims wanted the holy land because they considered it equally precious to them.

It seems to me that wars are always faught for that attitude. In one form or another.

[Dante]

Greed would not lead to war if it wasn't for the essentially warlike nature of humans. Otherwise diplomacy would be more common.

[nemafakei]

Hm. I think it depends: on what levels are you considering it?

I would not say that religion is the reason all wars occur. It might be the cause of some. But I do think it is a tool used by those who would benefit from war.

"What do you guys think it is that sparks a human being to kill another person?"

Now this is different from why wars happen. Wars gnerally happen because war benefits the initiator - or at least, the intended outcome of the action that provoked war was profitable to the perpetrator. The initiator may be a country, a group of people (or more often, the people stirring them up), a parliament or a single person. So yes, I'd say greed.

Where religion - or more generally, ideology - comes in is often a tool of propaganda. Sometimes it's overt, and leaders state that they are acting for ideological reasons, be it spreading the 'true' religion, spreading the 'right' culture or the most 'free' economic or governmental system. Sometimes it's implicit - Bush's many speeches on his wars of terrorism seem to repeat the message that 'God is on our side' - and while he would deny that it is a christian war on Islam, (and it isn't, per se) - his religious references are hardly accidental: he wants christians to associate his wars with justice and christianity.

[TMA_1]

I am not a fan of bush, but I think many people from other countries have an equally skewed idea of what bush wants. I whole-heartedly believe that he thinks he is doing the right thing, and that he is not attacking muslims. Though bush has been a pretty poor president, he has been one of the most sincere. Sincerity is worthless though when you are in the wrong.

I am just saying though that I think he is not trying to spark christian influence against the muslims as a whole. In fact I think he really only thinks fundimentalist muslims are in the wrong, and that he doesnt have some weird racism towards muslims in general.

Sorry, it isnt that I like bush or anything. I just wish that those who live overseas would at least curb the extreme and naive ideas that bush is a monster. I assure you he is not. He is more unwise and untrustworthy. Equally bad traits as president.

There has to be a universal hub for what causes war. All things can be summed down to their basic parts.

I personally believe that all humans are inherently destructive. I believe that we let our own self interest get in the way, and that we are as a race simply unable to hold any sort of empathy for too long. This mixed with our natural greed and desire for expansion, with the issue of population growth as well as other things add to increasing tensions, and warfare in general.

[nemafakei]

I'm not saying it's necessarily Bush's greed. He may well believe exactly what he's saying. But what about his advisors, his speechwriters, his party machine? Bush himself could be seen as part of this propaganda, perhaps witout being entirely conscious of it.

[TMA_1]

hmm good point nema.

[Dude_Doc]

It is easier to be evil than to be good. Just as Joseph Stalin (may he burn in hell forever) said: "Man causes problem. Kill the man - kill the problem!" (or something like that). And sadly it is true - it is easier to just kill someone who doesn't agree with you, or share your religion or wants to live on your land under your rules.

Discussing the problem, analysing it, making conclusions or calculating the outcome of this or that option is, to anyone, a real pain in the a__. Democracy feels so tiny and powerless - "one vote, what does it matter?" But to take up a gun, point at someone and make him or her agree is both fast and effective.

Wars have always been based on power and supremacy. Take more - get more, may it be space, recourses or something else. But wars also has to be based on the obidience of the people involved in that war - therefore fascism often serves as the most effective system in a situation like war. This is essentialy bad for the people.

In other words: War is caused by people who want more power and control. 

[Caid Ivik]

Core of human conflicts is in their free will. Means of their solving in their wisdom. Not that unviolent solutions are somewhat ultimatively wiser than violent ones, you won't make heat without fire surely, but sometimes we sacrifice consequences for simplicity. This is a cause of wars; yes, somehow it is in our nature to do so, altough I would not place it as a primary attribute of human. It is the freedom, and morality depends on how do we understand it.

[The_Sadukar]

Well according to Ernst J

[stefanhendriks]

Fear leads to war. Fear to lose 'control' over a situation.

Thats what it all boils down to i guess. Like Iraq.... "Fear" to lose control over 'the situation' (no matter if it was OIL or WEAPONS of 'mass' destruction)...

But keep in mind:

Fear is the mind killer... ;)

[Ninja_Sher]

all wars are either the cause of politics or religion, all

look them up and you will see it all comes domn to that, some even have both

Most wars were fought for looting purposes though i.e capture all others wealth and make yourself rich and laugh at the poor losers.

[Edric O]

I am not a fan of bush, but I think many people from other countries have an equally skewed idea of what bush wants. I whole-heartedly believe that he thinks he is doing the right thing, and that he is not attacking muslims. Though bush has been a pretty poor president, he has been one of the most sincere. Sincerity is worthless though when you are in the wrong.

Well, you know what they say about good intentions and the road to hell...

I personally believe that all humans are inherently destructive. I believe that we let our own self interest get in the way, and that we are as a race simply unable to hold any sort of empathy for too long. This mixed with our natural greed and desire for expansion, with the issue of population growth as well as other things add to increasing tensions, and warfare in general.

If you want to boil down the causes of war to their innermost core, it all comes down to greed. Person A wants something. Person A can get what he wants by killing person B. So A kills B.

Keep in mind that modern warfare evolved from tribal warfare, which in turn evolved from one-on-one fights between individuals.

[Caid Ivik]

Bah, puny dialectics...

[Egeides]

I think that war comes from a variety of exterior factors, which themselves are linked to human's interior nature. This interior nature links and acts on exterior factors and... you end up with a mix of

- errors/incomprehensions (even good will applied wrongly messes up)

- greed/self-promotion/etc. (that would be Sin for a Christian)

- this part of logistics which "just can't be better" (that's Machiavel: you're in politics, even the best one needs to understand "political capital". Others do it? You're stuck to follow partly: if you don't the others will and they might be worst than you. So get the territory/propaganda working... "on the good side" ::))