Connections between Dune and Christianity

[Digital Guerrilla]

Jihad is struggle not revolt gunner154 and the spelling is incorrect for that name but I think I know what you are trying to say.

[UsulSK]

Every story about a single rebell who changes the history is similar to the bible.  For example "Star Wars" which also has a lot of similarities (Anakin having no father, ...) .  But lets not forget the Herbert CRITICISES religions, which I personally think is good.

[Edric O]

No, he criticises people who manipulate others using religion for personal interests (e.g. the Bene Gesserit)

[garth]

Isn't the fact that organized religion can be manipulated a fault of religion?

[Edric O]

I'd say it's a fault of humanity... for not being human enough.

[nampigai]

Do you really think he criticies the BG? after all they are the ones who in a way shall save the human race from the unknown dangers of the scattering.

[quoudam72]

I'd say it's a fault of humanity... for not being human enough.

Human enough to do what take responsiblity for the choice that we are given? Or is there something else that you are saying.

[garth]

I don't understand what you're saying Edric:

"I'd say it's a fault of humanity... for not being human enough."

So it's humanity's problem that it is manipulating religion...but its not being manipulative enough?

[nemafakei]

Religion can be manipulated because its roots are in manipulation. No religion can escape being manipulated because it is itself a manipulation.

[ordos45]

TO open myself up to the attacks like Edric is I want to say soemthing.  Anything man makes canb e manipulated, because humanity cannot leave anything as it was.  Religions change, form, grow, and end, yet the Sisterhood would always remain.

[nemafakei]

That sounds like a quote. If it isn't I've seen that text somewhere in one of the books.

[ordos45]

Actually it partly is a quote from Chapterhouse.  Ordrade says some junk about manipulating religions, but the phrase in it that stuck in my head was that," Empires will rise and fall but the Sisterhood will remain."

[nemafakei]

It's in another book as well, I think.

But anyway, the sisterhood did manipulate religion (Miss. Prot.) and thus they relied on the insecurities of humanity. Therefore, the sisterhood could indeed survive for as long as there was humanity to be manipulated.

Which makes it ironic, but fitting, that for 4000 years, its leader was not human.

[ordos45]

Technically, human/sandworm hybrid but I must agree with your assessment of the BG Nema.

[nampigai]

I think that Frank Herbert criticies humanity for being so easy to manipulate.

[nemafakei]

And for being so transparent.

[Edric O]

Ok... what I meant with that weird post was that humanity isn't "human" enough to create a stable, peaceful society, without manipulation, wars, etc..

Nema, you're wrong about the roots of religion. Very few religions were created specifically for the purpose of manipulating people. Most were created BY the people, then "taken over" by the religious elite... and one was created by God. (as you probably know, I'm a christian)

[ordos45]

Hmm...while I must agree that one religion was created by God I must say, can we make a new thread if we're going into a religion war?

[exatreide]

Why whenever edric gets involved with any thing doing with religion it turns into are own little jihad. Its not now but i can feel the bud of a jihad  opening. Let us chop the stem before it blooms into full blown hatred.

[ordos45]

Jihad can mean struggle or war (depending on if you are extremely liberal about the translation).

[Edric O]

Ex, that's probably because I tend to argue my heart out...

But I never intended to write anything offensive. When it comes to Religion, my ideal is peace. Waging wars to promote peace would make me no better than the "White House shrub". ;D

[Edric O]

Ordos45, what do you mean "calm down"? I wasn't even angry!

[nemafakei]

Sorry. I meant the roots of ORGANISED religion. And it was not just people that were the manipulators - it was the abstract evolution that forced humanity to become superstitious. This developed into religion, and was thence manipulatory.