Need Help With Questions Concerning Dune? Ask Here!

[Mahdi]

My apologies if this has already been answered, didn't read the whole thread, but;

Is it merely the shield that explodes when a laser hits it, or does the firing lasgun also explode in sub-atomic-explosiony death?

I'm wondering because, although both firer and target explode in E:BFD, the impression I got from the books was always that it was simply the shielded target that did, and the lasgun-firer was only killed because they would be within the blast radius

[TMA_1]

no, it cant destroy a world mahdi. I dont want to sound like a nitpick (I do, oops.lol) but the explosion has a limited radius based on the power of the las-gun and the shield. It is varied though as to how strong the explosion might be. You are right it could just kill the two that created the interaction, or it could explode close to the power of an atomic. All I am saying is there is a cap on how much energy it can release.

[Dante]

Is there a cap on the potential size of a shield? Assuming an unlimited supply of power, that is. If not, then theoretically there should be no cap on the size of the feedback when hit by a lasgun.

[Anathema]

I always assumed that a shield with a laser being fired on it causes the atomic mass inside the shield to go into a nuclear reaction -either fission or fusion- and that therefore, the explosion -if there would be any- would be limited by the mass inside the shield sphere.

But that's just my interpretation. It's hardly worth getting into it much though, as the scientific basis seems pretty shaky to begin with. Laser beams are essentially just ordinary light, after all.

Dune is a SF novel in where science is only there to accomodate the fiction, wich is good. Putting it bluntly: wouldn't it be cool if everybody would fight with sword blades? Hmm, then I've got to think of a good reason why.

Herbert was obviously not a scientist (in Heretics, he makes the mistake of a negative temperature measured in Kelvin, wich is impossible)

But all that's okay. Screw science. As long as the story is good.

[TMA_1]

he was a scientist of a type, and there were mistakes but there were many neat ideas he had. but yeah he was definitely not an asimov in that aspect.

the explosion from the lasgun shield reaction if I remember right cannot be as great as a large atomic explosion. There is a cap to the size I do believe.

[MrFlibble]

I thought it was said that the explosions could vary in unpredictable way, sometimes reaching the scale of an atomic explosion, but in any case it would be lethal for both lasgunner and shield-wielder.

[3ngel]

Well guys, first of all many many compliments to this site and this thread that in my opinion kicks ass for great! :)

Now back to the reason of this post. I was reading for the second time GEOD, and CASUALLY i came into the world "Arafel". Mmmm, i don't remember this word at all... wtf does it mean? I asked myself. So i did a little researches... and... WHOOOOOO! MY BRAIN WASHED OUT COMPLETELY!!! I was kinda crazy because my concept of "Golden Path" was completely and so inaccurate!!! And i can't forgive myself!! The more i thought about it the more i realized how great was FH in all the things he wrote... Incredibile!!! Then i asked myself : "Why didn't i understood this SO ENORMOUS CONCEPT, after reading all the 6 books?" I reply myself : "Because that bastard put the REAL MEANING of the golden path in only 1 book out of 6 and in only in 1 row of writing!!! FB!!!!" :)

Excuse me for this delirious, but i'm so thrilled about how FH is a genius i can't stand it :)

Now that i'm a little bit calmed myself, i'll say what i want to say :)

Well, first of all, those less than 10 words, gave me a terrific portrait of what it was written, a tragic and so sad vision, like a Terminator 1 opening scene, with that so horrible tank-sound all over a skull-cracking, and man trying to hide behind the lines... but in that case, they could not hide...so without-hope... wh... how saaad, i was almost in tears... so beautiful... so f...ing cruel... Now, i understood the Siona phrase "How cruel, it is!".

I was so brainwashed by this realizing, because i understood that Leto fought against THREE(!!) menaces throug its golden path. The first was the humanity stagnation, that could lead to staticity and then death of human race. The second against the Arafel. And the third against the opponent of Kralizec "The battle that will be fought at the outer universe", that became visible only at the end of Chapterhouse. Whao, what a genius was Leto! What a person! And he gave the humanity the possibility to defeat Arafel first through Siona descents, then to stand Kralizec through the 2.0 BeneGesserit rev (BG + HonoredMothers), through 2.0 rev HumanRace semen (worm communicating girl), and 2.0 rev Mentat (Mentat + PreVision).. Whoa.. whoa... whoa!! I'm again almost in tears... :)

The shocking thing, is that all the mosaic pieces go to their places in the end of Chapterhouse, except obviuosly Kralizec, that have to come.

That's all. Forgive me for this long and delirious post, but i can't stand it. Dune 6logy is SO huge, so genius, so f....ing beatiful. Many compliments Frank, many many many real compliments :)

EDIT : Ops, i forgot the question :)

Anyone has an idea of what is the Net of the two face dancers, Duncan sees at the end of Chapterhous?

[Egeides]

Hey! I just saw that there is some seemingly good material to be added on page 10 of this thread for "A list of all Dune books and related work"!

Now, 3ngel:

I have no idea about for your question. Actually, I read the last book a few years ago now... (and other things for now) but anyway I think that Herbert is quite something :P He was said to read only classics, and throughout his work we can see this. Machiavelli's example comes back in a futuristic form, Homer's Illiad is present, and his knowledge shows.

Now my question to you, since you made me delve back in a bit:

What was Kralizec? Rakis religion? I don't remember...

And how do you see this worm-communicating girl? What about her?

PS: dont forget to give a look at our other forums, especially politics/philosophy one which is quite active and in my opinion has some substance.

[3ngel]

@Egeides

Kralizec was a Fremen myth, speaking about a huge (and presumely kind of final) battle that has to happen "near the end of outer universe" (or something like that, i'm traducing from italian). Leto II speaks about Kralizec more than one time, in one or two occasions with Stilgar the naib, the other with Moneo (his Palace boss),(or it was Ghanima i don't remember well) when Moneo has some doubts and ask him "It's really necessary?", and Leto answer "Without it, there will be no human race".

About the worm communicating girl, it's in the six book. And in the end she goes with Duncan on the non-ship.

Where is the other forum? Can you give me the link?

[MrFlibble]

Where is the other forum? Can you give me the link?

he meant the other sub-fourums of FED2k.

The worm-communicating girl was Sheeana, she became a Reverend Mother then.

[TMA_1]

that is awesome you have gotten into it so much man. I was in that phase for a very long time. That is why Dune is still my favorite sci fi series of books. I have read a few by now too so man... I totally agree.

Arafel actually comes from the hebrew, and it basically means "darkness". It is mentioned in the old testament relating to the end times. I think this has to do with the second advent of thinking machines being used inside most heighliners eventually. Or it could be talking about the Face Dancers. It has been awhile since I read the last two books. Can somebody give me a refresher on it? I know that the wording is right, but I am not exactly sure if it is dealing with the machines or not. I believe it does imply the machines.

[HasimirFenring]

Maybe I'm just too stupid to figure this out, but I see an inconsistency between the prequels and the originals (I realize that there are tons of these, but this is a big one):

spoilers from Legends books, I guess:

[hide]The sorceresses later become the Bene Gesserit.  But what happens to their powers?  One of the sorceresses shoots lightning like Chancellor Palpatine, but the Revered Mothers never seem to have any significant psychic powers.  Where did those abilities go?[/hide]

[3ngel]

@TMA-1

Arafel, refers to machines. Infact Leto at the end of GEOD speaks to Siona and says to her:

"Don't be afraid of ixians. They will do machines, but they won't be able to do Arafel"

Hope this helps :)

[TMA_1]

thanks I remember that now.

[MrFlibble]

You mean Arafel is an artificial intellect? There was much talk in GEOD about Ixians possibly creating a thinking machine...

[Tako]

also it could mean that the ixians can do technolegy but no phisical evolution can be made by them, only on the technological plane

[MrFlibble]

It has occurred to me that I don't completely understand what a stone burner is. Why it's called a 'stone burner'? What does it have to do with atomics? Why does it burn away human eyes but keeps everything else intact? What are the principles of its working?

[Mahdi]

It's called a rock burner because it's purpose is to burn through rock until it reaches the planets core, which somehow causes the whole world to, well, turn into little ity bity pieces.

[TMA_1]

Also the power of a stone burner can be altered. There is one part of the prequels where a guy attempts to take a stone burner to destroy an entire planet, (he is caught eventually and uses it to destroy his base on arrakis, taking out him along with the enemies around him). One powerful stone burner seems to have the power to destroy an entire planet. it can also be used for smaller purposes. It is extremely illegal to use one of these things, and ownership of one is highly suspicious.

[MrFlibble]

It is extremely illegal to use one of these things, and ownership of one is highly suspicious.

Farok says "Even a stone burner should be outlawed" (DM, p. 55), which, to my point, implies stone burners are not prohibited by the Great Convention ???

[Tako]

in the dutch version it also implies that they are allowed because of the fear still around to encounter a hostile "other" intellignce

[Tako]

Abou time I place a question here,

I was re-reading heretics and found something I could not really grasp.

there is say about harkonnens during the time of muad'dib and leto II but I thought they where all wiped out in the last battle?

(rabban and the baron in the battle and Feyd in the aftermath deathmatch)

I know the baron had a brother but not much is said about him,

I know feyd has a child in the belly of Margot Fenring but that child belongs to the Bene Gesserit so...

who are thos Harkonnen after the rise of Muad'dib?

[Dante]

House Harkonnen wasn't completely wiped out after Feyd's death. It lasted, in name alone, for several thousand years. These Harkonnen had pretty much zero influence, power, or money. It may be that Feyd and Margot's child was the originator of this line, but more likely there was some random cousin or something with the name Harkonnen. If I had my copy of the Encyclopaedia with me I'd look it up.

[Mahdi]

House Harkonnen wasn't completely wiped out after Feyd's death. It lasted, in name alone, for several thousand years. These Harkonnen had pretty much zero influence, power, or money. It may be that Feyd and Margot's child was the originator of this line, but more likely there was some random cousin or something with the name Harkonnen. If I had my copy of the Encyclopaedia with me I'd look it up.

Exactly, although they must have had very limited power, perhaps being relegated to a house minor as I beleive it is stated somewhere that Gurney took over Gedi Prime eventually.

[Egeides]

I got curious. I just decided to see how some looked at Dune, and someone said that Paul could not get into the Golden Path. I thought it was that he didn't want to, for moral/emotional reasons (and perhaps the hope that some better way would come up), considering the well-living of humans. Leto II took the cold amoral choice by pure rationality, considering his rationality to be absolute and complete both in extension (space) and time, considering only survival.

I never delved further so I wonder how you guys looked to this.