Mahdi Posted January 29, 2002 Share Posted January 29, 2002 I've always said that if Shakespeare lived in the 60's and wrote sci-fi, he'd have writted Dune Messiah, but now I;m thinking I was closer tot he truth than I thought. While going over the definition of a classical tragedy, I noticed that Dune Messiah fit everyone of the crieria. So what do you think? Was Frank Herbert trying to write a classical trgedy set 25, 000 years in the future? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alejandro Posted January 29, 2002 Share Posted January 29, 2002 I think not Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mahdi Posted January 29, 2002 Author Share Posted January 29, 2002 Why not? It fits every criteria needed in order to be a classical tragedy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
exatreide Posted January 29, 2002 Share Posted January 29, 2002 what is this criteria Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vanguard3000 Posted January 29, 2002 Share Posted January 29, 2002 You mean the parts with Irulan vs. Chani, and the conspiracy against Muad'Dib? It is tragedy, yes. but "Classical" wouldn't be a word I'd use to describe it.And I don't think Shakespeare could possibly write that well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mahdi Posted January 29, 2002 Author Share Posted January 29, 2002 I"ll post all the cirteria for a classical tragedy tommorow, but a few parts of it is:The hero's death ahs to affect the whole nation/worldThe hero has to see his own downfallThe hero has to partly responsible for his own downfall and know it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nemafakei Posted January 30, 2002 Share Posted January 30, 2002 Plus, at the end, the protagonist understands everything that has gone on in the tragedy, just before his death. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quoudam72 Posted January 30, 2002 Share Posted January 30, 2002 A classical sci-fic tragedy, with the criteria Mahdi and Nema posted it would indeed fit the category. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mahdi Posted January 30, 2002 Author Share Posted January 30, 2002 Requirements for a classical tragedy:In a classical tragedy the story ends with the heros death. The tale is about suffering.In a classic tragedy the hero's death affects the whole nation.In a classic tragedy the hero finds himself in a dilemma and must take action to solve it.The hero is supposed to be noble and capable.In a classic tragedy the hero becomes a note of sympathy and terror at the helplessness of man.The hero should struggle twards his goal and be dmired for his determination and courage.In a classical tragedy the hero rises to new heights and expresses himself as a unique and special person even after death.A classic tragedy creates a cathartic response which makes the audience fill their sould with pity and terror.In the ending of a classical tragedy justice is prevailed and the enduring faith in the nobility of man remains.A classic tragedy ending nees to contain a cathartic response felt, the hero triumphs in death and is aware of his fate and accepts responsibility for his doom. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quoudam72 Posted January 30, 2002 Share Posted January 30, 2002 Maud'Dib!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mahdi Posted January 30, 2002 Author Share Posted January 30, 2002 What? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TMA_1 Posted January 30, 2002 Share Posted January 30, 2002 Yeah that makes a lot of sense. Frankly shakespeare wasnt the greatest writer I have ever known but it mixes well with a lot of the ancient greek tragedies.The great hero falls and everything is tattered. I agree mahdi:) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quoudam72 Posted January 30, 2002 Share Posted January 30, 2002 Maud'Dib, Maud'Dib!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Acriku Posted January 30, 2002 Share Posted January 30, 2002 Caution: Spoiler!!!Ya but Muad'Dib didn't die right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mahdi Posted January 30, 2002 Author Share Posted January 30, 2002 If I hadn't read COD first I'd have thought he died. Maud'Dib died, but his body survived and became the preacher. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Acriku Posted January 30, 2002 Share Posted January 30, 2002 So you mean to the people Maud'Dib died? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mahdi Posted January 30, 2002 Author Share Posted January 30, 2002 Everyone thought Maud'dib was dead, and the preacher himself said that maud'dib was dead, and that he was merely a shell of what he had been.But, if you just read Dune Messiah, or Dune and Dune Messiah, you'd think paul was dead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Acriku Posted January 30, 2002 Share Posted January 30, 2002 Ok I think I see what you mean. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thomas Posted January 30, 2002 Share Posted January 30, 2002 good book, dune messiah Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Acriku Posted January 30, 2002 Share Posted January 30, 2002 Ya, it was my first Dune book, very political and very descriptive. I love the scene with the atomics going off in the city. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ordos45 Posted January 30, 2002 Share Posted January 30, 2002 It is a tragedy, if that is the criteria. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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