Dune Messiah: A classical tragedy?

[Mahdi]

I've always said that if Shakespeare lived in the 60's and wrote sci-fi, he'd have writted Dune Messiah, but now I;m thinking I was closer tot he truth than I thought.  While going over the definition of a classical tragedy, I noticed that Dune Messiah fit everyone of the crieria.  So what do you think?  Was Frank Herbert trying to write a classical trgedy set 25, 000 years in the future?

[alejandro]

I think not

[Mahdi]

Why not?  It fits every criteria needed in order to be a classical tragedy.

[exatreide]

what is this criteria

[Vanguard3000]

You mean the parts with Irulan vs. Chani, and the conspiracy against Muad'Dib?  It is tragedy, yes.  but "Classical" wouldn't be a word I'd use to describe it.

And I don't think Shakespeare could possibly write that well.

[Mahdi]

I"ll post all the cirteria for a classical tragedy tommorow, but a few parts of it is:

The hero's death ahs to affect the whole nation/world

The hero has to see his own downfall

The hero has to partly responsible for his own downfall and know it

[nemafakei]

Plus, at the end, the protagonist understands everything that has gone on in the tragedy, just before his death.

[quoudam72]

A classical sci-fic tragedy, with the criteria Mahdi and Nema posted it would indeed fit the category.

[Mahdi]

Requirements for a classical tragedy:

In a classical tragedy the story ends with the heros death.  The tale is about suffering.

In a classic tragedy the hero's death affects the whole nation.

In a classic tragedy the hero finds himself in a dilemma and must take action to solve it.

The hero is supposed to be noble and capable.

In a classic tragedy the hero becomes a note of sympathy and terror at the helplessness of man.

The hero should struggle twards his goal and be dmired for his determination and courage.

In a classical tragedy the hero rises to new heights and expresses himself as a unique and special person even after death.

A classic tragedy creates a cathartic response which makes the audience fill their sould with pity and terror.

In the ending of a classical tragedy justice is prevailed and the enduring faith in the nobility of man remains.

A classic tragedy ending nees to contain a cathartic response felt, the hero triumphs in death and is aware of his fate and accepts responsibility for his doom.

[quoudam72]

Maud'Dib!!!

[Mahdi]

What?

[TMA_1]

Yeah that makes a lot of sense. Frankly shakespeare wasnt the greatest writer I have ever known but it mixes well with a lot of the ancient greek tragedies.

The great hero falls and everything is tattered. I agree mahdi:)

[quoudam72]

Maud'Dib, Maud'Dib!!!

[Acriku]

Caution: Spoiler!!!

Ya but Muad'Dib didn't die right?

[Mahdi]

If I hadn't read COD first I'd have thought he died.  

Maud'Dib died, but his body survived and became the preacher.

[Acriku]

So you mean to the people Maud'Dib died?

[Mahdi]

Everyone thought Maud'dib was dead, and the preacher himself said that maud'dib was dead, and that he was merely a shell of what he had been.

But, if you just read Dune Messiah, or Dune and Dune Messiah, you'd think paul was dead.

[Acriku]

Ok I think I see what you mean.

[thomas]

good book, dune messiah

[Acriku]

Ya, it was my first Dune book, very political and very descriptive. I love the scene with the atomics going off in the city.

[ordos45]

It is a tragedy, if that is the criteria.