Air Force

[alejandro]

Why air units hasnt been developed with the exception of the carryals and the ornithopters, the frigates of the houses are awaiting his moment, they exists but in a second place and not like combat units, bombers an fighters would make the game more interesting(see Total Anihilation).

[ordos45]

This will be the Arrakis2k tanks debate all over again I think. Personally I think its because for once westwood is following some of what the novels say. By the time Dune takes place everyone has technology to counter almost any weapon. Except for shields, swords, and lasguns.

[quoudam72]

PLEASE, not the tank debate thing again:) With the fact that Dune has horrid sandstorms and limited real estate the use of an air force is costly. Carryals and ornithopters are the only airborne units used on Dune. I don't see anybody even trying to develop it due to Dune's harsh enviroment.

[alejandro]

Why not Fedaykin-Sandwalker?, why only the house of Atreides must have offensive air tecnology? In the novel and in the film the Harkonnen have some air units.

[Guest Mithrandir]

If Westwood had put ornothopters in all of the houses, then everyone would be complaining about how all the units are the same, and they should be different. Like Fed said, the environment of Dune is harsh, and in the movie there were no other units besides 'thopters.

[quoudam72]

The Harkonnen did have air units in the novel and film but when have the games ever followed the novel complete.:) The developers of the games (IMO) use that to create differences between the Houses. The use of military units on Dune has been a debate in the past for many reasons. The main reasons is because when Herbert wrote Dune there is some military science but it is out weighted by his "philosophical science" Any House could easily purchase ornithopters from IX correct? Maybe the developers took this detail out of previous game consideration for entertainment purposes. As far as advancement of knowledgable technogly goes it is sometime effected by a peoples environment hint the Atriedes were from a water world.

[alejandro]

Touche Fedaykin-..., the games has followed the novel as i have followed the ants population growth in the north pole.

But the enviroment of the home planet here has no efect, you say it, Caladan is a water world the ships must be the Atreides best(I know they are good in air units too), they must be confused in a desert planet, and what about the Ordos, they came from and icy planet and have tech for the deserts? Unveliable.

[Guest Mithrandir]

Really, if you think about it, the game is based about two hundred years from the book, so wouldn't the technology be LESS advanced? But, you're right Alex, they don't follow the books very much at all! :)

[tag]

The British, the Mongols, the Romans, the Macedonians, the Chinese. There's plenty of precedent, a list much longer than the one I presented, for civilizations conquering under conditions vastly different from that of their homelands. I don't see why the Atreides, Harkonnen, or Ordos should have any greater difficulty.

In fact, it should be easier considering a house can send their troops to train on an ally's planet where the conditions better match the theatre of war. Take, for example, House Corrino. Kaitan is the official capitol of the Corrino; however, the Sardaukar are not trained on Kaitan but on the much more harsh Salusa Secundus.

Furthermore, take a look at the Emperor: Battle for Dune plotline. The events in the game take place directly after those in Dune II/2000 in which the current Emperor is eliminated, leaving a power void. Therefore, the three great houses have already been fighting on Arrakis and should have had the oppertunity to optimise their weapons for desert warfare.

As for why Westwood hasn't developed their air combat model as other RTS developers have, the answer is simple: Westwood doesn't want to for reasons which are their own. At a guess, though, I would say they would rather put their effort into developing a supurb ground combat model than try to balance the complexities of multi-dimentional combat. Whatever the reason, though, as long as Westwood makes good games, we'll still buy them. I for one would rather play a good, simple game than a mediocre, complex one.

--Bashar

[quoudam72]

I was going to say that also about how none of the Houses would have diffculity in conquering Dune with their knowledge of technology. I agree with Bashar who made some very valid points about having the opportunity to "optimise for desert warfare" due to the fact they were allowd to train on Dune. The only reason I made mention of the enviroment as having an effect on the Houses was refering to things beyond Dune. (In other words I kinda got off the subject directly):-[

[alejandro]

The diference Bashar is that this civilizations didnt change of enviroment in less than one day they suffer an adaptation process. Nobody says nothing about adaptation in others allied planets. I prefer too a simple good game than a mediocre one, but use the design of air units for more than one house is not very dificult.

[quoudam72]

I wonder if that will come into play if you ally with House IX in E:BFD. If you do not have air support (Hark./Ordos) and if you already have it (Atreides) would it become more advanced/modified? I say this because House IX are a "technology advanced" House in the novels although not very powerful.

[Guest Mithrandir]

I don't think the alliship of any of the houses improves your troops other than adding a couple of units, but hey, what do I know? I don't have the game yet!

[alejandro]

Fed-Sand.. like you said the game dont follow the novel, in theory the Bene Gesserit are "witches" no warriors, and the Bene Tleilax are mentats, etc., they have no war capability.

[Gobalopper]

You could include the Guild with those two as well.

[alejandro]

Yeah Gobalopper, but The guild controls the space travel and as i see is the only with enough power and influence to raise an army.

[quoudam72]

More options is what I thought was the part of the game by allying with another House you get better equipment,or your own modified refering to my eariler posted example. I thought that would be the option that we would get out of the addition of the Sub-Houses. I think someting like that would have made E:BFD even better and different from anything in the past. You know a real classic among games.

[alejandro]

I think so Fed-Sand.

[Guest Halef]

Tleilaxu are not mentate only Order - yes they prepares mentats, but...

Their main fortces are Face Dancers and Masters (if you've read of course FH's Heretics of Dune or Chapter-House Dune).

Masters usually go in a second line and encourage fierce and fearless Face Dancers.

Than Tleilaxu has Gholas as there military commanders or teachers.

The Order of Bene Tleilax is very powerfull in FH's books. The only disadvantage is their religion and Bene Gesserite that are able to discover Face Dancers.

Space Guild in books does not bahave or act on its own - they obey any House that took leadership we cannot consider them as real enemy.

Instead of Ordos it should be the House Ix that is highly developed technologicaly.

But that is pointless conversation 'cause what it will looks like in E:B4D nobody knows.

[naib]

Hey Mithrandir

That what you said about when the game takes place is wrong, you said 200 years before the novels, westwood said that it takes place in 10190(they said it to that it takes place 200 years earlier)but the 1st novel takes place in 10191.

so 200 years is incorrect.

[urzaphoenix]

I'm sure about the ordos, but House Harkonnen does have an airial fighter. It's just not called an ornithopter.

[Gobalopper]

I believe it's called a Gunship.

[exatreide]

Yes i agree about the whole air warfare thing on dune. but a few missions in the game take place of dune. I wonder if you get special air units on caledan then a whole difrent typ on dune?????

"I want my baby back baby back chile baby back sandworm."

[daniel]

well air force would be really kewl but it would make the game abit harder....wuti would really want is alot of space fites outside certain planets..i mean wouldnt the harks at least haf a descent space force b4 the enemy attacks them???u know space fite b4 u hit the enemy planet?? anyone agree???

[peseverance]

well....... in Dune there aren't really any space fights.... Or i haven't heard of any...

everybody moves about in Guild ships and those guys prohibit fighting

and to have a fleet you will need a lot of spice for the jumps and all so its a tad bit dumb :)