The UN and Israel

[TMA_1]

It bothers me when so many people (not pointing fingers at anybody on this site) bash israel, or attempt to judge or condemn israel for it's actions. Israel has to be harsh because of the harsh realities that it faces. It bothers me when so many people judge without even knowing whta it is like to live in an environment of fear like that. Israel handles it with dignity and grace most of the time, though like all nations israel does make mistakes sometimes. Largely though the nation has been overwhelmingly kind considering what they face. They have bent over backwards for the international community and they are spit upon.

One of the big things that always bothers me is that in almost every war the UN doesnt even help.

I love it when in the past wars israel gets no true support from the international community. The only time when the UN steps in is when israel is winning, and then the UN steps in to stop the fighting, after israel has already pretty much won. It seems to me that the UN protects many arab countries, because each time israel begins to win that is when the UN steps in to "help". WHy is it that overwhelmingly israel gets no support, and has not been given support throughout it's history until they are actually winning or are succeeding in things? then when they do they are pushed back by the international powers that be.

Anti-semetism is rampent, and that is exactly waht it is in my mind. Why is it that so many in the international community are so quick to condemn, and yet show no real compassion towards israel? Why is it that if you support israel in america, that most of the time you are considered a right wing extremist? Why is there such an overwhelming fear (or worse) bitterness towards israel? Why is it that israel is constantly pushed back, sanctioned, derated and all around harrassed by the international community? You only hear the condemnation of palistinian and arab factions with israel condemned as well? Why is it always Israel that is included in the blame? I could name so many, I mean so so many cases where israel is not the aggressor, or where israel isnt even really involved in the problems of it's history, and yet groups like the UN still find ways to blame israel?

Sure israel ahs screwed up sometimes, but their track record is pretty damn clean compared to most countries out there, and cleaner than most countries that are in the UN. All in all, israel has been one of the most upright and noble of countries, taking it's hardships with dignity and an unusually high level of compassion. I mean sheesh when israel was founded palistine would have been formed right near where israel was, with Jerusalem being a protectorate under a third party. Guess who screwed that one up? the arab neighbors of israel. I mean constantly it is plain to see, so whats up with this?

[Caid Ivik]

This isn't antisemitism, it's antisionism. Muslims simply don't like civilized countries setting near Sion, because they believe then it will hurt them like during the Crusades. And now Turks are on our side, so they fear it even more. They are unable to hit them violently, so they try to abuse UN for it. What we wanted as a mainstay of peace became the fiercest battleground - at least it's limited here on pure words.

Ohev ani et Jisrael!  ;D

[shygirl4]

Im with you on this one TMA.

Shy

[Kiyouta]

What about that wall they are building? Its no surprise Israel gets no support from the UN. Israel has violated the Geneva Convention with its bulldozers, and is illegally occupying the West Bank. The UN and the rest of the world owes Israel nothing. I'm not saying that I therefore support the palestinians, in fact the way I see it is that both sides are as bad as each other. Its a very complex situation. One that the international community simply does not want to get involved with.

[TMA_1]

thats the problem though! america has gone against the geneva convention, and has gone against many UN statutes. I mean israel is trying to take care of itself and the international community should understand this. I mean I dont know why the UN attacks israel for things like the Palistinian State, which israel has bent over backwards for. Not only that but the palistinians themselves are virtual leeches, who need israel as an entity in order for themselves to survive. The majority of palistinians work in israel for crying out loud, and the palistinian authorities have yet to make any stable economic or political growth of any kind, yet israel is grouped in with palistine. Everybody sees them as the "two children who wont stop bickering". This kind of idea is just plain foolish and blah! this issue jsut bugs me to the core. More than any other issue right now, I cannot understand why people dont side with israel more. I mean there are so many issues that I disagree with people about, and have no problems because I can see where peopel come from on issues like abortion or gay/lesbian rights and many other situations. The israel/palistine conflict and the hatred of the UN towards israel just mystifies me, and I still do NOT understand why people are so antagonistic towards israel. I mean this literally is the only issue where I dont understand why people feel this way. I really dont get it. I mean it is funny I understand why some people are athiests, and why some arent. I understand why some people are pro choice and so on. I like to think that I at least try to feel the issues, but this one issue really just suprises me every time I think about it. It just doenst make sense to my why more people arent on israel's side. It is common sense to me to support israel. Not out of some spiritual or patriotic reason, but just out of pure common sense.

[Dude_Doc]

It's pretty amazing with the Jews. For hundreds of years people have hated, killed, gassed, expelled, tortured, enslaved, blamed and all other things, agains the Jews, and still, they stand. Makes you wonder...

[erjin999]

And now its their turn for revenge !  ;)

[leo]

Ohev ani et Jisrael!

[thomas]

the UN is filled with unrealistic pansies, Israel has no other choice but to defend herself. Anti-semitism is rampant especially in Europe and more specifically France, the UN is filled with such countries that let this hatred flourish. Israel has no reason to listen to these despots.

[Dude_Doc]

Well, if you want something done in this world, you simply have to take it in your own hands. The UN has prooved itself to be nothing but a holographic image, dictating this and that without any real power. It's as futile as the Leauge of Nations once were. Sure, it's better that they don't wage mass war, but in a serious conflict that has going on for what, the last 50 years? - you simply can't just talk about rules and regulations. You HAVE to DO SOMETHING. The UN has itself to blame for not resolving the crisis if they want peace in that region.

[Caid Ivik]

Good words, Cyborg. I would only add: if you want something fone in this world, you simply have to do something by yourself, and encounter as less bureaucracy as possible.

[nemafakei]

The UN is only made weak by the weakness of its members.

The problem is that no country wants the UN to be able to decide against it, even if that counrty is in the wrong. So most simply refuse to let the UN do what it's supposed to do. If you allow the UN to do unto yourself as you would have it do to others, there's no reason why you can't take up the initiative.

You can only expect to use the UN to arrest errant dictators guilty of gross human rights abuses, if you allow the UN to have the same jurisdiction over your own people.

Liable to go off at a tangent, so I'll stop.

"after israel has already pretty much won"

Define won.

[Khan]

* We don't have the right to build a wall?

But why don't you build it on your side? Or at the very least, on the border.

I think it's sad that so soon after the Berlin wall came down, a new Iron Curtain is going up.

[nemafakei]

Oh, and Leo, do you think the Palaestinians have the right to build a great big ditch down the middle of Israel to stop tanks and soldiers coming across?

[leo]

"after israel has already pretty much won"

Define won.

Does crashing completely whole armies of about 3 or more countries counts? Or marching without any resistance into Damascus, Beirut, Amman and Cairo? By the way when the Arab armies were proceeding towards Tel Aviv the UN didn

[otheymzefedaykin]

Why UN exists ? ::)

[leo]

To provide Israel a good joke.

[nemafakei]

"But why don't you build it on your side?"

"If they could they would"

But why can't they?

"In case you didn't know less than half of the wall is built on their lands"

You and I are looking at different maps. It looked more like 90% to me. As a matter of, ah, interest, who was it over there who said that the land under half of this wall was Israeli in the first place.

Oh, and Leo, do you think the Palaestinians have the right to build a great big ditch down the middle of Israel to stop tanks and soldiers coming across?

[HasimirFenring]

"But why don't you build it on your side?"

"If they could they would"

But why can't they?

I have the same question.  Probably becuase there are Jewish settlements in Palestinian territory that also need protecting.

[nemafakei]

So the wall is just temporary until more Israeli settlements pop up on the other side, at which point another wall is built...

[otheymzefedaykin]

Oh, and Leo, do you think the Palaestinians have the right to build a great big ditch down the middle of Israel to stop tanks and soldiers coming across?

Not wrong !

[leo]

"But why don't you build it on your side?"

"If they could they would"

But why can't they?

"In case you didn't know less than half of the wall is built on their lands"

You and I are looking at different maps. It looked more like 90% to me. As a matter of, ah, interest, who was it over there who said that the land under half of this wall was Israeli in the first place.

Oh, and Leo, do you think the Palaestinians have the right to build a great big ditch down the middle of Israel to stop tanks and soldiers coming across?

You didn't read all my post, i already answered about it.

[nemafakei]

I assume you reply is referring to the last part of the quotation.

I know you answered about the question, but I want you to answer the question itself... unless you meant "so YES YES YES they can!!!", which I had assumed to be referring to one of the contorted conditionals twisting around the sentence. You have at least seven protases and no apodoses. But you are saying that the palaestinians do have a right to build a ditch?

And, not that I wish to seem rude, but...

"But why don't you build it on your side?"

"If they could they would"

But why can't they?

"In case you didn't know less than half of the wall is built on their lands"

You and I are looking at different maps. It looked more like 90% to me. As a matter of, ah, interest, who was it over there who said that the land under half of this wall was Israeli in the first place.

[leo]

I assume you reply is referring to the last part of the quotation.

I know you answered about the question, but I want you to answer the question itself... unless you meant "so YES YES YES they can!!!", which I had assumed to be referring to one of the contorted conditionals twisting around the sentence. You have at least seven protases and no apodoses. But you are saying that the palaestinians do have a right to build a ditch?

And, not that I wish to seem rude, but...

"But why don't you build it on your side?"

"If they could they would"

But why can't they?

"In case you didn't know less than half of the wall is built on their lands"

You and I are looking at different maps. It looked more like 90% to me. As a matter of, ah, interest, who was it over there who said that the land under half of this wall was Israeli in the first place.

* I'm saying that if they were in the situation we are so they would have the right.

* Why can't they? Do u know how much does the wall cost? The whole project costs Israel over billiard dollars, just lately the EU donated the Palestinians 1.3 euro to repair their infrastructure, do you really think they can afford it? And anyway if they could it's really not a big deal for Israel to destroy it.

*What do u expect me to say? I monitor the progress of the wall daily and I almost know its entire rout by heart. When the wall will be done we'll have a final map, then we can talk. And as said here before, a big part of this wall is meant to defend settlers as well, and some Israeli cities are exactly on the green line so there is no other option but building the wall on SOME Palestinian lands.

You seem to criticize the act but not the reason which brought to it, after such barbarians acts I think that what we are doing is absolutely nothing, when USA was attacked only in 1 terror attack it whipped out 2 countries (I'm not criticizing them or anything), your UK is not better in this issue. If you want we can have a little history chat?

[Shiroko]

Look, the wall (What wall? less than 1% is a wall the rest is a simple fence as there's on every border of two unfriendly country, walls are built only in the middle of towns which have an Israeli and Palestinian part) is built pretty much on the borders, with attempt to include as many settlements as possible, a lot of politics is involved, and some parts of the fence were supposed to be built (Or already built) in bad areas, luckily for us, we have courts, which discuss it for ourselves (Without Hag's court which believes "defending against terror is not a right" - page 115 of their verdict) and cancelled some parts of the fence plus parts that have been removed and rebuilt.

Now just a point, Israel's control of the territories is not illegal, the territories should have become a palestinian country in 47, but instead our indepenence war ended with Jordan control those lands. In 67 we conquered them, back in those days, it seemed rational to hold them (Yes, some thing sound stupid 37 years later).

I strongly believe after 3 years in the IDF and seeing a lot of these area, that a lot of the world's politics is s***, if you want to stop teorrorist acts, don't expect someone to do it for you. This results in a lot of awful thing, palestinians dying, losing their homes and more. I however know today that this is not for spite, it actually prevents terror in the middle of our cities, and therefore I approve of it, not because it's ideal, but because it's the only thing possible.