fremen vs sardaukars

[Guest sardaukar]

who would win?

[Guest sardaukar]

I think fremen

[tobias]

the fremen, without a doubt, thats like asking

who would win, normal troops or sardukars.

sardukars is no match for fremen at all.

in the the first book the sardukar barely

capture alia from a siege of only women,

children and weak fremens, and that was only

because she let herself capture. i know the

game doesn't follow the book, but still this

is quite a difference in skill.

[naib]

Indeed Fremen will win in such a battle, they grow up fighting

[tobias]

Indeed Fremen will win in such a battle, they grow up fighting

so was the sardaukars(salusa secundus, but

they had better conditions than the fremen.

[garth]

PLEASE people they are called SARDAUKAR.....not "Sardaukars",

Sardaukar is both the singular and plural form of the noun. Same goes for the fremen, there is no such thing as "Fremens".

It all depends on what time period you are talking about anyways. If you say the time before Shaddam IV, I believe the Sardaukar would be a match for the fremen, if not greater. During Shaddam IV's time and before Prince Farad'n they are certainly not better than the fremen. During Prince Farad'n's time the Sardaukar were restored to their former fighting prowess, while the majority of the fremen were in decline, so the Sardaukar would be better.

[tag]

I have to agree with Shaddam here that there a number of variables to be considered before answering this question. Both Fremen and Sardaukar are trained in harsh climate; however, these climates differ. Troops of the Imperium and the Landsraad are unused to desert warfare, can we not assume the Fremen would be equally out of place on, say, Salusa Secondus? Naval combat would also be totally outside the scope of Fremen expertise. Furthermore, off Arrakis we'll see a proliferation of shields in warfare. Sardaukar are trained for shielded combat, Fremen are not. So depending on whether this hypothetical battle takes place on or off arrakis will have a significant effect on the outcome.

Weaponry and equipment also make a difference. Other than in stillsuits, Sardaukar will generally have the advantage here. The Fremen Crysknife is a very sharp and very light weapon with good balance, but also more fragile than steel blades. And lets not forget the ol' shilga-wire in the hair trick.

There is also a matter of tactics. The Fremen excell in conceilment and guerilla warfare, granting an advantage on unusual terrain while the Sardaukar probably have better formations, allowing them to bring to bear greater firepower on open ground. Also, and in accordance with Shaddam's point of the time-line, Fremen tactics were significantly improved under the tutalage of Paul Atreides and his mother, Jessica.

Perhaps most important is the factor of morale. What motivation does each side have to fight and die? This has probably the greatest effect on Fremen. As shown in the books, they are unwilling to spill blood with even the inferior harkonnen troops unless they have a clear reason to (e.g. to fend off a clear attack). But under the leadership of Paul Atreides, a Fremen will fight until he or she has no energy or life left in him. The Sardaukar on the other hand generally fight because they're ordered to and are motivated to secure objectives than an ideology.

I'd like to say in response to Tobias' remark about the Sardaukar capture of Lady Alia. Your example only proves that Sardaukar *can* defeat children women and old men of the fremen, not necessarily that they *can't* defeat the warriors. And while I agree that Alia did allow herself to be captured, there is no way anyone would have "let" them kill Paul's firstborn.

I would also like to pose my own example, the scene in which involved the capture of Thufir Hawat. In this case the Sardaukar did defeat Fremen warriors as well as Hawat's own men, though how many to each side is unspecified. This is probably a good example of the Sardaukar's ability on the open ground.

Personally, I believe if were were to compare a generic Sardaukar to a generic Fremen warrior and were somehow able to quantify their abilities that we would find that they are about equal in strength. It was through the leadership of Maud'dib and a deep understanding of the battlefield which granted the Fremen superiority about the time of the Battle of Arakeen. I might note that when the Jihad moved off of Arrakis the Sardauakar were already out of the picture by treaty and that the Fremen victories there were against Landsraad soldiers.

Phew, now I remember why I hate message boards. [g]

--Bashar

[Mahdi]

"I would also like to pose my own example, the scene in which involved the capture of Thufir Hawat. In this case the Sardaukar did defeat Fremen warriors as well as Hawat's own men, though how many to each side is unspecified. This is probably a good example of the Sardaukar's ability on the open ground."

Ah, but the sarduakar had the advantage or surprise there. Most of the Fremen were dead before they even knew what hit them. It didn't have much to do with the saurdakars ability to fight on open ground as it happened inside a cave surrounded by the desert.

[Guest SPICE@EATER]

Game wise , id think they would be tied. If not why pick the sardaukars to allie with in the first place if freemen cancel them out. But, book wise freemen CAN cancel them out though there were some sardaukar victory's. WW has to even things out for this game to be fair and fun.

[Mahdi]

Thsi sucks, you can't ally with both the Fremen and Saurdakar in the campaign..

That would be the perfect alliance...

[garth]

I disagree with you on one point Bashar.....

"The Sardaukar on the other hand generally fight because they're ordered to and are motivated to secure objectives than an ideology."

Although this is partially true, the Sardaukar also had their own warrior religion that was "deeply undermined by cynicism" according the to Dune appendix. That is probably the main reason for their downfall.

There is a very strong parallel to the rise and fall of the Sardaukar and Fremen throughout Dune.

[quoudam72]

The Fremen and the Sardaukar would be the perfect alliance YING & YANG. Good point about the fighting tactics of both groups and mention of the time lines. Do day and night not become one for a brief moment at some point and time?

KULL WAHAD!!!

[Guest sardaukar]

OK I say Fremen on dune

[Guest feet]

hello

[Guest fremen warrior]

bump

[Guest Draken]

Well as people have siad it depends on mutch.. For the games it is..

Dune: The Sardukar, cos how meny fremen on had one would always loose if one screwed with the emp :) (now when i think of it i never tried to station alot of fremen at the palace and then mess with the emp..)

Dune 2: Sardukar, cos thoes fremen raids wasent wery strong..

Dunke 2k: Fremen but as thay was so hard to get compared to Sardukar the Sardukars still wins..

Dune:Emp: Fremen, nothingy beats them except for flying units. It wouldent eaven get fair if Fremen wasent stelth. What WW need to do is increase the produktion speed of sardukar and lower the price.

Im now using Fremen/Sardukar/Ix Alliance in Single play.. just got the IX but it seams like thay are waste of money.. when nothingy beats 20 Fremen @ 250 per unit.. 5000 for an troop that can trash atleast 20 tanks and like 100 ground troops..

Compared to Fremen the Devasator is an joke! I killed a Dev with one single Fremen.

Well Sardukar are also way better then any tank..

I hope WW will relize that and make the Dev and that heavy walking unit for Att to be able to fire machinegun fire against troopers at an loong range.

The Sonci tank is great.. except the faq that for 1400 one get 5

[Guest Cheatah]

Ok, erm, i want to reply to a certain post (don't remember who posted it): you CAN ally with sardaukar and fremen (a friend of mine has allied with fremen, sardaukar and tleilaxu, and these combinations can kick major azz)

Cheatah

[Guest Albatross]

...I can confirm that, Cheetah. I am in the Ordos campaign, and about to launch an attack on the Atreides capital (on Arrakis, that is). I am allied with the Sardaukar, Fremen, and Ix. I don't like the Ix much, though.

Fremen troops are cool, but they require too much micromanagement. I'm playing version 1.04, so if there's a different one, that might be the factor, but the Fremen -I- build are pretty lousy when it comes to choosing targets. In fact, despite the Fremen Warrior's decent rifle range, the little pests will only open fire on their own if something is right next to them or if something attacks them first. Other than those two conditions, I have to MANUALLY point-and-click at each target I want them to go after, and when I'm used to my auto-firing swarms of Tron Tanks and Sardaukar, that gets REAL old, REAL fast.

The only reason I like the Fremen are for the Fedaykin. They are decent against most non-air units, which is nice, but I generally build only one or two for the purpose of worm-riding. It's rather random as to whether or not they will be successful in summoning one (and even then, the time for it to arrive is usually quite great), but once you DO manage to get one, you can tear through a hefty chunk of the bad guy's army. Other than the worms and occasional stealthy snipes, I'll stick to my Empire-devoted terror troops, thanks.

[prismtank]

Actually, it's man for man, the fremen kill a sardukar, the rest of the group kill the fremen that killed the sardukar.

[azurewrath]

Actually, Fremen are good, if you set them on Guard mode. By default, they are set on stealth, so they don't open fire on the first Tom, Dick or Harry that walks by. Setting them on Guard mode virtually ensures that you get the drop on the enemy everytime when you mix Fremen with the Fedaykin

[peseverance]

What the Hell?!?! Why not have Fremen and Sardaukar... I have those two in my Atreidis campaing... It's pretty sweet until a Hark Inkvine Cat tumbles past my force... Shit they drop like flies...

As for Fremen v Sardaukar in the game Fremen win... the have further range and if the Sardaukar get too close just move back... they DO have stealth :D

[cyclonus]

On arrakis the fremen rock, but on other worlds I prefer sardaukar.

[garth]

I can deal with the inkvine catapults by using Elite Sardaukar, but what really makes them drop like flies are the Atreides Minotauruses(?).

[cyclonus]

Minos rip into them horribly, but than again thats a good thing, no single unit type can win a war, this game stresses combined arms.

[behemoth69]

I'm not to sure though about the freman winning becuase i had a group of about 5 sardukar and i was attacked by a group of maybe 15 or 20 mixed freman and my tropps killed them all with only a couple losses. I also noticed the elite freman's attack did very litel damage to a regular sadukar. Even though as someone said that the freman grow up fighting, the sadukar also do the same plus they are much more filled with honor and such and this helps them to fight more of a whole. This is just my opinion though so yea.