What house best if no subhouse?

[pearlmen]

Ordos rules I think.

1.Ordos v Atr (ordos)

Surely if atr has huge mino, ordos can use deviator easily.

2.Orods v hark (ordos)

Maybe laser with mortar very pwrful...Hark will be trouble against huge lazertank. Inkvine good counter against mortar,but lasertank can hunt inks easily.

3.Atr v hark (ATR)

Hmm I dont know exactly. I just think Atr has more chance to win than Hark.

[Apollyon]

Hark.

Hark vs Ordos - turtle and gunship = no more ordos.

Hark vs ATR - Rush and the atr will have a hard time due to lack of sards. If it gets to late game, lack of feds makes minos vulnerable to deva drops.

[kk134567]

atredies

atr vs hark

mongoose+krindjal+minotaurus+rocket turet+sonic tank

the devastator will be too slow for all atr units and gunship can be easliy gunned down by tureets inkvine can be killed by mintaurus

atr vs ordos

onitopher in numbers can easily wipe out an ordos base rocket turets can kill laser tank mino can terminate the kobras and mortar deviator can be stopped by turets and krindjal

[Apollyon]

HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA.

;D

[ZeGeR]

IMO every house can beat every house. The houses are very balanced. You simply have to scout well and adapt your tactics

[leo]

atredies

atr vs hark

mongoose+krindjal+minotaurus+rocket turet+sonic tank

the devastator will be too slow for all atr units and gunship can be easliy gunned down by tureets inkvine can be killed by mintaurus

atr vs ordos

onitopher in numbers can easily wipe out an ordos base rocket turets can kill laser tank mino can terminate the kobras and mortar deviator can be stopped by turets and krindjal

when was the last time u played emp?

[ZeGeR]

atredies

atr vs hark

mongoose+krindjal+minotaurus+rocket turet+sonic tank

the devastator will be too slow for all atr units and gunship can be easliy gunned down by tureets inkvine can be killed by mintaurus

atr vs ordos

onitopher in numbers can easily wipe out an ordos base rocket turets can kill laser tank mino can terminate the kobras and mortar deviator can be stopped by turets and krindjal

IMO this is just theory. You have to execute it as well. That might prove to be a lot harder than you think.

[Apollyon]

It's not just a theory, it's a crap theory.  :P

[darkd3th]

I'm deffently with apoll on this , hark .

Atr vs hark = dev drop

Ord vrs hark = dev drop

You may say well what if atr gets a lot of drones . Here's my answer obvouisly its late game if he has a lot of drones (most likly anyway) so u should have enopughunits to fend him off for a while . So u make a bunch of devs and a lot of adv carryalls . And just drop them in key places (spice feild , mino horde , base etc.) Because if u send 8 or 10 devs into a base at the same time , there ain't gonna be nothing left .

But I'm sure there are ways to counter this maybe a mass mino drop , or engi drop but whatever . All I know is it would be easyest for me to win with hark if there was no sub houses

[Apollyon]

Dev drop isn't so potent against Ordos due the laser tank's speed and therefore its ability to get back to base when needed quite easily.

[darkd3th]

Well a bunch of massed lasers isn't gonna do much to 8 devs in a cluttered base, since they won't be able to kill them in time .

(by in time I mean b4 u kill his cons and facs so he can't build and armored uints andymore , or buildings)

So thats how I feel .

[Apollyon]

That late game any Ordos player is going to have their base strewn with AA infantry against gunships or similar, making carryall drops pretty impossible and destroying any devas that do get dropped pretty damn fast.

[darkd3th]

Adv carryalls out run aa inf's missles , therefore theywon't get hit . Yet i'm sure thatat least 1 or 2 would go for (most likly the 1st one and 2nd one being they'll be shot at first) and then the other 6 would be drop and , 6 is deffently enough to wipe out an ords base quickly .

[Apollyon]

They don't outrun them as they land. With about 60 AA troopers in your base most devs will get murdered very fast and any that do set down will be able to kill one building tops, which is not a sound investment for the price of 8 adv carryalls and 8 devas. I'd probably have a couple of deviators in the base too in case of deva drop.

[darkd3th]

Apoll , lets try to think of how stuff go down nowadays and not back in the day when people played differntly . What I mean is peaople are going to have 60 aa's in one place in there base nor will they prob put deviators in there base , or even have a starport to get deviators . I mean realy who "nowadays" uses devaitors against hark ?? The only way I can see 8  or 10 devs being killed is while they're in the air and get shot by like 50 elite sards , which won't be there .

And in my earlyer post I said "1 or 2 will be killed" I meant that they will be killed by the aa since those 2 will be the ones in the front , that the aa will fire at and possible kill . I guess i wasn't being clear enough .  ::)

[Apollyon]

Apoll , lets try to think of how stuff go down nowadays and not back in the day when people played differntly . What I mean is peaople are going to have 60 aa's in one place in there base nor will they prob put deviators in there base , or even have a starport to get deviators . I mean realy who "nowadays" uses devaitors against hark ?? The only way I can see 8

[darkd3th]

I know when I drop my devs in by kobras with all that protection and shit around em . I basicly use them as a decoy, then haveing a main assualt coming from 2 directions . That way I keep the kob occupied and killing the rest of the stuff with my main force  . Hasn't failed me yet .  :)

But it realy all depends on the situation what term of game and all that .

[Dunenewt]

I'd go for Harkonnen as well for their raw power.

[Voodoo Daddy]

I'm not posting an opinion, because i'm not experienced enough to really have one. But I do have 2 questions. Based on the above comments-and this is NO SUBHOUSES!

1. Based on above comments, is there a natural imbalance in the house strength? And does it mean that in the hands of two players of basically the same skill, Atr. will always loose?

2. Does the choice of maps have any bearing on the outcome? Example- Do ordos do well simply because everyone plays on fishers plain, where the Ordos can hit and run?

I ask this because these kinds of threads seem to always wind up takling about unit strength, Example- hark would win because 3 of these will kill 5 of those etc. and not strategy.

Example- vs this house if use a small group of X to draw the enemy out into the open sand and then come at them from 2 sides with Y they can't defend themselves. Which would also lead to my map question.

[KALONY]

hey..,

1., imo the houses r realy balanced. in case of two players with the same skill, its a decision of the rocks, the luck, the strat and the surprise who will win. yea, the house ordos might be a lil bit stronger in earlier games, but atr can defend, and is a lil bit stronger in later game....so in the end, they r equal i think.

2., yeah the choice of the maps is importand. in a small map with loads of rocks its hard for ordos vs an atr. thats y we mostly play fishers, its the most balanced map of em all.

and if u know the maps well, u have an advantage. u know faster where to place units, where inf is effectly where u shouild attack where not where ur base has an weak entrance where u should spice and so on.

and for example: there is a fan-made map, i guess its called sietch of the second moon, there u cant move ur vehicles from the rock to the ground....only inf can leave or u has to make carrys. in that case hark has a great advantage, coz of gunships.

KALONY

[GUNWOUNDS]

I'm not posting an opinion, because i'm not experienced enough to really have one. But I do have 2 questions. Based on the above comments-and this is NO SUBHOUSES!

1. Based on above comments, is there a natural imbalance in the house strength? And does it mean that in the hands of two players of basically the same skill, Atr. will always loose?

2. Does the choice of maps have any bearing on the outcome? Example- Do ordos do well simply because everyone plays on fishers plain, where the Ordos can hit and run?

I ask this because these kinds of threads seem to always wind up takling about unit strength, Example- hark would win because 3 of these will kill 5 of those etc. and not strategy.

Example- vs this house if use a small group of X to draw the enemy out into the open sand and then come at them from 2 sides with Y they can't defend themselves. Which would also lead to my map question.

Fishers is played because it is the most balanced..... on smaller maps...

[GUNWOUNDS]

1. Based on above comments, is there a natural imbalance in the house strength? And does it mean that in the hands of two players of basically the same skill, Atr. will always loose?

2. Does the choice of maps have any bearing on the outcome? Example- Do ordos do well simply because everyone plays on fishers plain, where the Ordos can hit and run?

The problem is that Atreides is a sensitive house it must be played with skill.... it is expensive so you must know how to maxmimize economy..... the units function best in a good mix so you need to have infantry and kindjal

[Voodoo Daddy]

Yes, I have been shown some of what you talked about gunwounds, and some I have stumbled upon myself, like the infantry mix with a mino hoarde. The lazers used to eat them up, but with infantry they keep on marching. I call the infantry "Cannon Fodder" lol. But

[GUNWOUNDS]

well i  i only mentioned kindjal because people were wanting to "exclude" subhouses and so i couldnt say "elites" which is what i would have recommended.

But anyways...  the leap frog effect is ok  but if the enemy is good he will gass them.... so best thing to do is mix kindjal in with your infantry  ... in your "fodder" mix that is.  Also flanking works good too.

It is rather awkward discussing a strategy with no use of subhouses tho.  However i believe all the houses are balanced.