MSN Messenger 6.2 beware!

[Cyborg]

Do you want to make X your home page?

A quite useful question. I have MSN as my home page.

Do you want to install these links?

As long as the links are listed, and you can answer no, it's nice to offer the links.

but then why isn't their a general FAQ for those things

Why isn't there a general FAQ about filling petrol?

Perhaps it's something so basic that it's expected that you just know it.

You're always guided through the process step by step anyway...

[gryphon]

You're always guided through the process step by step anyway...

so you are always guided through the install, or sometimes tricked in the install as you previously claimed ?

Last time I checked I wasn't tricked into putting Diesel in my car. ....

Installing is not a basic thing if the majority of end users doens't know how to do it.

[Cyborg]

The majority of the users do know it...

The problem we really are discussing here is that they just click through the whole process. They don't read the few lines of text describing what the different boxes will do.

[gryphon]

guess it differs from country to country, although here the larger pasrt isn't familliar with ho-to-install software. They have a nephew who does it for them. . or call a friend who will come by to do it.

If they should ever try to install things themselfs they would have no clue what it means, nor even do most of those nephews know the full implementations of it.

just curious, you have Windows installed I suppose ?

[ stupid question, I already know.. .. :P ]. .

anyway, did you remove the spyware that comes with it by default in your Media Player suite ?

The problem we really are discussing here is that they just click through the whole process. They don't read the few lines of text describing what the different boxes will do.

So if I am getting this, you are discussing humanities ignorants at this point ?

[Cyborg]

if some installer installs files on your computer without your blessing, then no one will know before they eventually read about it. And that's dodging the topic...

Btw, why doesn't their nephew just teach them how to do it themselves?

[gryphon]

Btw, why doesn't their nephew just teach them how to do it themselves?

how should I know ?

And that's dodging the topic...

then what's this topic about . . human ignoranse ?

[Cyborg]

No, the topic about ignoring the descriptive text written on the install screens and rather just click through...

[gryphon]

The majority of the users do know it...

The problem we really are discussing here is that they just click through the whole process. They don't read the few lines of text describing what the different boxes will do.

didn't we just talk about the fact that you think most users should be familliar with the installation process. . in my opinion if a user is familliar with the installation process [ like it is when going for petrol at a gas station ] you should not be needing to warn then about clicking through the installation. . they knew they shouldn't as installing is something every one . . or a majority knows.. ..

Are you warning us for something we already knew even without the warning, or are most users not really that aware of what they are really doing with the installation as you previously claimed ? ;)

[Timenn]

Cyborg, you still forget that there are people out there who think different then you do. Yea, it is really true.

It is very easy to judge about people, when you know much about it, and they don't know a thing. And then you keep saying that people need to take lessons or something? Where? Should they download them from the internet? But how do you do that? And where can you get those from?

Well, I don't have much left for those who don't get even the basics of what they're doing.

If you don't know what an installer is, get someone else to install your programs...

Installing applications is not considered as one of the basics of using the computer...

And don't you read my posts? I said that many people even don't know what the installer is for, they just want to download a program and have it run. The installer is probably just some default license stuff to click through. No one has ever told them otherwise, because they were all, like you, very impatient with new users...

And why should people be obliged to learn all about computers, when they just want some text editors, MSN, and email...? It's like you should know how to ride a car, when you are only driving as a passenger. And if the government wasn't pressing on the issue so much of fastening seatbelts, not much people would really fasten them. Because how should a non-informed person know that it is dangerous to drive without them. then not many people would be aware of the fact that you are launched forward whent the car suddenly stops.  The reason why quite many people fasten seatbelts, is because they were informed properly, and no one ever suggested that not wearing seatbelts was ok...

And why are recommended options suddenly bad, while having checked the wrong options as default right? Isn't that the same? People often think that if they don't know what to do with an option, that the default one should be the right one. So it works the same as recommended options...

A quite useful question. I have MSN as my home page.

Yeah, quite useful if you want that stupid page as your home page. Not if you don't want it...

You're always guided through the process step by step anyway...

Just like you are guided on your first sailing lesson, and your instructor says: "Now go tack!"

Ignoring things you don't have knowledge about is a very human thing to do. We do it all the time, because we live in a society where we depend on other people. And the purpose is that we not try to trick other people for things they don't know anything about...

[Cyborg]

You try to make this sound so hard.

Take my sister as an example. She's not good at using the computer generally. She's afraid of things she hasn't seen before, and calls me whenever a message box appears on the screen.

The problem is that she is lazy and afraid. She doesn't even care to read the message box before she calls me. Then I come, and get her to read it, or read it loudly myself, and she goes "oh! I should've figured that out myself". Why didn't she read it? Because the box contained more than three lines of text, and she "automatically" thought it was very advanced...

And when instaling an application, it's about the same thing as if every time you want to drive your car, even if you have the driver's license, a person is sitting next to you, telling what to do.

There's always text describing what each button would do(even though you know what it does), and a next button to click to go further. Software today is actually made for those who know little about the computer, and therefore, they often contain much text. The users don't care to read this text, because they either think they won't understand it anyway, or because they are lazy. I do understand that the text sometimes is poorly written, so that new users would have problems understanding it.

And please bear in mind that I am talkking about decent installation processes here. Not the worst you can find out there.

[Timenn]

You know very well that many installers contain hundreds of lines of text to read. Yea, you forgot the License Agreement... You know that one can be skipped or at least read through very fast, I know it, but there are many people who don't have a clue what text can be skipped in an installer and what must be read. So that was one thing people can get stuck on.

Second is that not all options make sense. Like a toolbar... Does everyone know what a toolbar is? No. So if they see an option about adding a toolbar, what must they say? Figuring that they don't want the toolbar if they knew what it was, they will have a problem. Because they can either leave it to default, and so they will get stuck with some stupid toolbar, or they need to ask around if anybody knows what a toolbar is. And I can understand if people think asking around is too much work, because maybe they don't know anyone who can help them, or they have some impatient helpers who don't understand why other people have so much trouble with computers...

[Cyborg]

It's not very hard to imagine what a toolbar is...

a bar of tools... However, tools is very vague, because it can be anything.

Perhaps the toolbar was a bad thing to ask about in the MSN Messenger installer. I didn't say it was good; I said it teaches people a lesson if they know what a toolbar is, and wouldn't want it if they read what it was.

Many people will like the toolbar, and some won't. Personally, I think toolbars should be banned...

And I didn't talk about the license agreement, as no one reads them anyway. They're just there to relieve the producers of any responsibility.

[erjin999]

Clicking straight through is naughty, You should never do that. If you dont understand what it means, ask someone.

As for serves them right, I disagree. Once I was like them, I made mistakes, we all do. But installing is also a basic thing these days, we should be able to do it without geting caught out by simple stuff like homepage reset.

[Timenn]

Ok, and the toolbar was an example. And besides them. "It teaches them a lesson." When learning people something, they shouldn't be punished with mess on their computer because they got it wrong the first time. You know that it is much harder to remove all the mess, then it is to install it all. And you do need to be an advanced computer user to know where to check for mess on your computer...

"No one reads them", you mean no one who has experience with installing. People new to it, might think that it is seriously needed to read through it entirely...

But you don't have such thing when you are like... installing a dishwasher into your kitchen. When following the instructions in the manual, you do not suddenly get an option: "5) Now read the License Agreement and Agree before you continue with 6)"

[erjin999]

But you don't have such thing when you are like... installing a dishwasher into your kitchen. When following the instructions in the manual, you do not suddenly get an option: "5) Now read the License Agreement and Agree before you continue with 6)"

Thats muder the IT/COmputer industry has been getting away with. I know of no industry that does it so blatantly, totally ignoring any responsibilty.

[Super-ness]

my 12 year old brother installed it whilst i was away

glad to say he unticked the boxes without me there :D

but i ran adaware Just In Case though  8)

[lowzeewee]

I just installed it. I refused the sponsor program.

[erjin999]

Hopefully something will be done about spyware soon.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/3818057.stm

[gryphon]

weird that the same government that allows musical CD's to be equiped with software that will install without any indication or warning when you place an audio CD in your computer . . software that will not let you copy, grap or rip the music from the CD is trying to inforce laws for spyware. ... btw. Isn't that the same government that snoops our emails to ?. .

[Cyborg]

You're stretching it a little bit here...

There's a difference between copy protection and data miner software.

[Alexander_Ordos]

I was too lazy to read all the text behind my post, but i can say smth on the topic. Yes SpyWare IS BAD BAD BAD. U won't believe me but spyware ruined my system once, it managed to morph with some of the imprtant dll's. The spyware was gator and etc... When i scanned with Ad-Aware there were like 3k+ files infected (after that accident spyware = virus to me) by this crap. After I deleted it all, Windows stopped working..well i'm no noob in computer using, I trusted Ad-Aware and it wiped out half of the dll's. I got terribly pissed, formated the hdd. Installed Linux + WinXp (Used to have WIn2k) and now there's no single piece of spyware on my pc, cause I fight it with passion  8) 3 Scan softies running  ;D But the best way to ward yourself against that is to say NO to Intenet Explorer! Because every known shit is programmed for this particular browser - spyware, trojan, whatever. So guys - use Netscape or smth like that. And well, best pay a bit attention while installing smth.  ;)

[Cyborg]

And well, best pay a bit attention while installing smth.  ;)

Good point...  :)

[gryphon]

You're stretching it a little bit here...

There's a difference between copy protection and data miner software.

When copy protection software get's installed on a system without letting it's installation, or presents known .. [ even if you are a normal loged in user it will install with admin privileges ] it has the same carracteristics as spyware, or mallware as it's been called.

It's not about what the software does, but the carrecteristics it shows when installing itself unwanted and unknowingly on your system.

[Cyborg]

Yes, but it only shares that feature...

[Timenn]

So you don't mind if someone broke into your house, and eat all cookies in your cookies can, while you do mind if someone breaks into your house and steals your tv... You will feel quite much the same, since someone broke into your house, a violation of your own private territory...

I know breaking into someone computer has less impact then breaking into a house. But this is about comparing the following: The difference between those 2 things I mentioned, which you can do when you are in someone's house. And the difference between the softwares you can secretly install once you broke into someone's computer.

In both cases of installing software, it still is breaking into someone's private domain...