What if the nuclear bombs where used on Germany (part 2)

[shygirl4]

This was quite a thought provoking topic which was originally started by Lowzeewee and I

[Edric O]

Actually, the reason why Germany wasn't nuked is because Germany was defeated before the Americans finished building the first atomic bomb.

Yes, nuking Germany would have resulted in fallout all over Europe and other horrible consequences, but this was not known in 1945. Nuclear weapons were a new and untested invention. Nobody knew what they were capable of. So they would have been used on Germany without hesitation.

...Germany had already started two world wars...

World War 1 was started by Austria-Hungary, when it declared war on Serbia following the assasination of the Austrian crown prince. Then the Russians declared war on the Austrians, the Germans declared war on the Russians, and the French declared war on the Germans. And when Germany invaded Belgium, Britain declared war on Germany. That is how WW1 began.

...also by this time,  America had joined the war , and victory was almost guaranteed.

Victory was only "guaranteed" after the victory of the Red Army at Kursk, in 1943.

[lowzeewee]

Edric O, you are right about the two things that Shygirl said that was not correct.

Nuclear weapons had been tested before they were being used on Japan. I remember seeing a WW2 black-and-white video of Americans putting a nuclear bomb into a water body then wore on gas masks and counted down till it blew up and a mushroom cloud was formed, so they did knew what they were capable of.

[@Shy: I closed the thread because of you and Dust Scout]

[Anathema]

Victory was only "guaranteed" after the victory of the Red Army at Kursk, in 1943.

After the battle of Stalingrad about 4 months earlier it was already obvious that the Russians would eventually win.

Side note, if Germany finished the bomb before the US did, the allies would be completely screwed. With their V2 missiles they could have scorched Brittain completely, and they had plans for a A-10/11 ballistic missile that could have reached the American shore. :O

[Wolf]

Besides, some would argue that the United States did something just as bad as an atomic detonation; the thousand-bomber raids across Germany, which engulfed Dresden, Hamburg, Frankfurt, and other cities in infernos, probably killed as many people as an atomic detonation. However, I am not sure of this figure, and I will have to do research to confirm it. Nonetheless, such an action by the Allies proves that there remained the willingness to use the atomic bomb on Germany without much hesitation if it was deemed necessary to win the war and if it [the bomb] was made available before Russian forces breached the German Eastern front and made their dash to Berlin.

[Edric O]

Nuclear weapons had been tested before they were being used on Japan. I remember seeing a WW2 black-and-white video of Americans putting a nuclear bomb into a water body then wore on gas masks and counted down till it blew up and a mushroom cloud was formed, so they did knew what they were capable of.

Yes, they knew the explosive power of nuclear weapons, but they didn't know about long-term side effects like fallout.

After the battle of Stalingrad about 4 months earlier it was already obvious that the Russians would eventually win.

Well, Stalingrad ensured that the Germans wouldn't win, but there was still the possibility of stalemate. Kursk really nailed the coffin of Nazi Germany.

Side note, if Germany finished the bomb before the US did, the allies would be completely screwed. With their V2 missiles they could have scorched Brittain completely, and they had plans for a A-10/11 ballistic missile that could have reached the American shore.

If they had ballistic missiles, they would have used them all on Russian cities. Keep in mind that the Soviet Union and France were Hitler's true enemies. The war with the Anglo-Americans was an unwanted side effect.

[Caid Ivik]

Germany in WW1 was the true starter. It could remain a local conflict of Austrohungarian Empire and Serbia, Russia was unable to counter them. Problem was that prussian spirit could not live a half-century without a war. Fortunately, Prussia is now divided into Poland and baltic states  ;D ...

[ordos45]

Yes, they knew the explosive power of nuclear weapons, but they didn't know about long-term side effects like fallout.

I think they were sorta unsure on the power too, until the test was over.  On a documentary once they interviewed some of the Manhattan Project scientists and one of them apparently had been saying things like "What if we ignite the atmosphere".

[Edric O]

That couldn't have been a serious concern. Surely nobody is insane enough to test a weapon that they believe might exterminate all life on Earth upon detonation... right?

And Caid, there was no way a war between Russia and Austria-Hungary could have ever stayed local. They were two great powers, each with powerful allies. Also, keep in mind that the two empires shared a border, so I don't see why they would have had any difficulty in fighting each other. They did fight each other extensively, in fact.

[lowzeewee]

The scientists on the project wrote a letter to Harry Truman and it contained "It will kill people even after the bomb is over" or something to that effect.

There were the Central powers and the Allies. So when one is attacked, they will go and help and so will the enemy.

[Caid Ivik]

That couldn't have been a serious concern. Surely nobody is insane enough to test a weapon that they believe might exterminate all life on Earth upon detonation... right?

And Caid, there was no way a war between Russia and Austria-Hungary could have ever stayed local. They were two great powers, each with powerful allies. Also, keep in mind that the two empires shared a border, so I don't see why they would have had any difficulty in fighting each other. They did fight each other extensively, in fact.

About that bomb I wouldn't be so sure, Einstein himself said that stupidity has no borders... About Russia, I wouldn't be so sure. France and Britain once already betrayed Russians in Crimean war, while Turkey was our ally now, so such scenario as sixty years before could return. Russians would have a full excuse for taking control of Romania and Bulgary, just a step from their dream of returning Istanbul to christian hands. However, the emperor made another fatal error in his life: he chosen Germans for his allies. If he would die sooner, and the emperor would become that Karl, it would end up otherwise. But that's just a speculation now.

[Anathema]

If they had ballistic missiles, they would have used them all on Russian cities. Keep in mind that the Soviet Union and France were Hitler's true enemies. The war with the Anglo-Americans was an unwanted side effect.

They had ballistic missiles, the V1 and later the V2 (originally named A2). I don't believe they were ever used against Russia though, the only real value they had was targetting cities and causing as many civilian casualties as possible, and their range wasn't long enough to reach major Russian cities. London could however be targeted from the dutch shore. The A-10/11 missile could have reached as far as Moscow or New York.

[Caid Ivik]

A4...

[Dunenewt]

A4 was the V2

[Anathema]

Yes, sorry for the mistake.

[exatreide]

About that bomb I wouldn't be so sure, Einstein himself said that stupidity has no borders... About Russia, I wouldn't be so sure. France and Britain once already betrayed Russians in Crimean war, while Turkey was our ally now, so such scenario as sixty years before could return. Russians would have a full excuse for taking control of Romania and Bulgary, just a step from their dream of returning Istanbul to christian hands. However, the emperor made another fatal error in his life: he chosen Germans for his allies. If he would die sooner, and the emperor would become that Karl, it would end up otherwise. But that's just a speculation now.

The Turks never would have let Constaininople fall, they would have scorched it first.

Their were plans for mamned v-1 rocckets by the germans. They were going to use them to hit Russian Tank facorties around moscow and crippel them. Goering talked hitler out of it however. Though I dont doubt they would do it, they did used Kamakazi tactics against American bombers at the end of the war, and in destroying bridgies before the Rusains could cross them.

[Caid Ivik]

Who cares about Istanbul, you won't block the Marmar Sea!

First tests with Fi-103 were piloted. Just it was very dangerous for the pilot, so they rather choosed it as a flying bomb.

[Anathema]

There weren't just plans- the Japanese bought the manned v-1 design and happily used them on American ships.

[Dunenewt]

Turkey would easily be defeated if it stood against any of the sides in WW2.

If UK had been taken over after France Germany would have had a Nuclear bomber capable of Mach 25 by 1946.