TMA_1 Posted May 4, 2004 Share Posted May 4, 2004 I am starting GEOD right now and I noticed something.It is only a sentance long but it said that if Leto II didnt die in water, that all the sandtrout would be lost. I mean it is blunt, says exactly that.Now from what I remember in the book, the planned assassination was going to be done on the bridge over the river idaho. If I remember right though they didnt take water into play, I mean they didnt realize that if he woudlnt have died in water the spice cycle would have been utterly lost and probably the golden path would be at stake. Though the cycle largely died out during Leto II's reign he did know that he would spawn new worms, but it seems taht the assassins didnt know this.it is almost providence that did it, I dont know what do you guys think?(also I found it, leto said that one single sandtrout can eventually grow into a large sandworm.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nemafakei Posted May 4, 2004 Share Posted May 4, 2004 He took a route knowing he would be vulnerable over water. He chose to die in water, and he knew that the assassins would attack him there if he took that route, even though they did not know that this was the most important reason for this site. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vanguard3000 Posted May 4, 2004 Share Posted May 4, 2004 Yes. He could "see" his impending death, at least through the Duncan, who had no Atreides genes (I forget if Nayla had any, although I assume so), and thus chose to take the road which crossed the Idaho River.In a sense, Leto had machinated his own demise, allowing humanity to take the final step down the Golden Path. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpiceGuid Posted May 5, 2004 Share Posted May 5, 2004 Just as the Tleilaxus have used Paul vision to trap him in blindness, the Ixians use LetoII monstruosity to trap him in love.LetoII has to kill the Duncan or to be killed by him.But LetoII has nothing more human but love.Thus he can't kill the Duncan because they are rivals.Killing a rival would not be fair love.LetoII doesn't know Idaho River is the end.But he leaves the possibility opened.And sure the end is not totally fortuitous, it's conform to his project.The ironical is the Duncan feels free but whatever he does, he serves.That's why i disagree with Duncan as the real Dune hero.Duncan is pathetic and jalous.Duncan is the flesh, not less but not more.Of course he knowns he will spawn new worms, but as he lives he is the unique worm, he is the unique god, hoping humanity will forget idols.Also he dies before his worm mutation is completed, may be later would be too late, may be there should be at least some humanity in god.A god is a mix of love and tyranny, the Ixians believe they destroy the tyran using love, but actually they complete the process of deification. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TMA_1 Posted May 6, 2004 Author Share Posted May 6, 2004 yeah totally, I was just getting at this point, that I dont think the assassins knew how important Leto II's choice of death was, or how important it was that he died in water. know what I mean? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terror Posted May 6, 2004 Share Posted May 6, 2004 I don't think the water problem would be that big. I bet those sand forells could've survived anywhere on Arrakis except for the desert perhaps.On the other hand, sand forells in the original Dune became sand worms too, and at that time Arrakis was a desert planet. How do you explain that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TMA_1 Posted May 6, 2004 Author Share Posted May 6, 2004 no, it is the only way the sandtrout could have made it to water in order to form the sandtrout bundles so that they could evolve into the great worms. They have to suck all the moisture in order to create the waste product of spice which from what Ican surmise, changes their characteristics o create the worms. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terror Posted May 6, 2004 Share Posted May 6, 2004 But then how come sand forells turned into sandworms in the timeline of the first Leto?. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TMA_1 Posted May 6, 2004 Author Share Posted May 6, 2004 well thats the reason why arrakis was so dry, they would go deep underground and suck up all the moisture. The only reason I can think it was improtant to be near water is because the sandtrout were attached to Leto II so long that they n eeded to be clsoe by lots of water in order to work their process. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpiceGuid Posted May 6, 2004 Share Posted May 6, 2004 there is also this Dune magic: nobody controls anything, yet everything seems under control. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NHJ BV Posted May 8, 2004 Share Posted May 8, 2004 well thats the reason why arrakis was so dry, they would go deep underground and suck up all the moisture. The only reason I can think it was improtant to be near water is because the sandtrout were attached to Leto II so long that they n eeded to be clsoe by lots of water in order to work their process.But if they would go deep underground to find water on the early desert Arrakis, surely they can survive if they would go underground on the new Arrakis? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TMA_1 Posted May 8, 2004 Author Share Posted May 8, 2004 yeah thats why I said they must have been weakened or troubled after being apart of Leto II for so long, which was not natural for them at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
web_head Posted May 22, 2004 Share Posted May 22, 2004 Leto died? :'(whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa...........btw. Children of Dune is the best movie I have ever seen... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vanguard3000 Posted May 23, 2004 Share Posted May 23, 2004 Children of Dune is the best movie I have ever seen...Man, you must have seen some pretty crappy movies... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TMA_1 Posted May 23, 2004 Author Share Posted May 23, 2004 lol jeez vanguard that was cold! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terror Posted May 23, 2004 Share Posted May 23, 2004 It was actually pretty good IMO. Not the best, but good nonetheless. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpiceGuid Posted May 23, 2004 Share Posted May 23, 2004 not the best movie, but easily the best SF miniserie.may be less emphasis on ecology could have made it more profound, but it's really difficult to balance such a multi-layered novel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
web_head Posted May 26, 2004 Share Posted May 26, 2004 Man, you must have seen some pretty crappy movies...lol ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alexander_Ordos Posted May 31, 2004 Share Posted May 31, 2004 Sandrouts love water, they feed upon and they can't survive without it. The more water there is for a sandrout the faster it will evolve. It's that wierd spice cycle that F.H created, the first stage is a complete contrarery to the final stage of evolution. Leto II knew when, where and how he would die. I believe he planned his death for himself. River full of water was a perfect place for the start of the cycle. His fishspeaker general also believed she was doing what was supposed to be done, when she fired at the bridge. On the other hand Duncan and the other rebels didn't think wide about the consequences of Leto II's death, they wanted to take him out being driven by mere anger and revenge.Talking about COD, well it is crap in compare with Matrix and other expensive movies, but it's a marvel for Dune community. I liked it alot because I like stuff about Dune :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3ngel Posted June 12, 2005 Share Posted June 12, 2005 A VERY important thing to remember is that Leto choses to die or better (if we want to believe what he says : <I can't see WHEN i'll die>) he "risks" to die, ONLY because Siona was born and she passed the desert-test, and the universe was ready to scatter. Infact signals of rebellions were become very audacious, from Ixians with laser-duncan and Hiwhi Noree, and the Duncan himself is a clear Tleilaxu manipulation "'cause is so different from all the previous ones."Oh well, a word about Duncan. I hate IT in every part. He's so stupid, so limited in his thinking, so non-thinking, so close-mind, so driven by anger, only a puppet piece of trash :) As Moneo says :"You're only an ancient model". It's because of him that Siona and Nyala were forced to climb the wall of "Tuono" in the end. Without him, Leto would not been killed. With him, the entire golden path was put dangerously in the hand of one person, Siona. Stupid piece of trash!:) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spectral Paladin Posted June 12, 2005 Share Posted June 12, 2005 Read the last two books. Duncan deserves respect! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3ngel Posted June 12, 2005 Share Posted June 12, 2005 I'm talking about the Duncan in GEOD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spectral Paladin Posted June 12, 2005 Share Posted June 12, 2005 It's not like he's a different person, is it? He acts stupidly because he cannot know what an Atreides can. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3ngel Posted June 12, 2005 Share Posted June 12, 2005 Well, he IS a different person after GEOD, because i think at least 2k years have passed since then :)He's stupid because if he didn't know what to think or what to do, then its only role was to be devoted to Hatreides' House in the person of Leto, that is all the Atreides ever existed. Moreover he's an arrogant and pathetically mind-limited, he's not able to integrate himself in the current GEOD time and pretend to know what is wrong and what is right (with that pathetic scene with Moneo in the Fish Speaker general quarter about a lesbian army). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Posted June 13, 2005 Share Posted June 13, 2005 I think Duncan would be quite confused and angered at the fact that he is a tool, and that there is nothing he can do about it, since they will simply make another. This would be mostly true in GEoD, although he was still recreated afterwards lots. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.