Jews and the death of christ

[Anathema]

I watched the Passion of the Christ yesterday. Before that I heard it was extremely anti semitic but from what I saw Gibson doesn't show us anything else then what the Bible already said. I think that most critics who say it's anti semitic are either not christians or are christians who don't wish to be reminded about the less appealing parts of the Bible (and are therefore hypocrites).

There's also the controversial Bible quote "his blood is on us and our children", wich was in the movie but not subtitled (wich I think was quite cowardly). I don't have problem with jews but the quote does seem to imply that the jews, as a people, are responsible for the death of christ. What do you guys think?

[Edric O]

"His blood is on us and our children" was said by one crowd of people gathered in a public square. How many people do you think were there? A few hundred, maybe a thousand? They most certainly did not speak for the entire Jewish nation. They spoke for themselves.

I would also like to point out that the first Christians didn't use the word "Christian". They called themselves Jews. After all, they were following a Jewish religion.

[TMA_1]

actually it isnt a "jewish" religion. It would be like calling the jewish faith a sect of christianity. They both follow the same message, it is just that the jewish faith is past tense and the christian faith is present and future tense. The jewish faith says that there is a messiah to come, and to believe in that. The christian faith said that the messiah has come and that he died for our sins.

The only real jewish sect of christianity were the groups that tried to enforce jewish laws onto the cross of christ. Paul did not say it was wrong because the jewish laws were wrong, simply because the cross of christ is the only thing that matters after christ fulfilled the laws.

whew this is heavy duty docternal stuff.lol you get what I am saying though? if not then bleh, I am not good for much.lol

[NeoLogiX]

But where should Judaism derived from ::)?

-Judaism, Christian & later Islam originate from the Aebrahamic teaching ;).

The Jews execute & curse Jesus the Savior while Christian & Islam teach to love him much. But Jews & Moslem recognized him as a God Messenger while Christian accepts Him as Lord :-X.

Still a bit complicate when people have different way in portraying God like he or she want, but the vision is to obey the Mighty one ;).

actually it isnt a "jewish" religion. It would be like calling the jewish faith a sect of christianity. They both follow the same message, it is just that the jewish faith is past tense and the christian faith is present and future tense. The jewish faith says that there is a messiah to come, and to believe in that. The christian faith said that the messiah has come and that he died for our sins.

[Caid Ivik]

Jesus himself was a Jew. He spoke arameic dialect and even had greek name, but of soul and heart he was a full Jew. Pharistic and saducei traditions didn't accept his teaching, and now we call them orthodox/liberal Jews. Christianity is a third way of judaism, nothing else. And we can't even say it is the only spread. Orthodox Jews found new followers in Ethiopia, India and Khazar (now whole Askenazim tradition), while liberals have strong place in America, where it holds those, who weren't consumed by pseudochristian sects like mormons or jehovists. From these you know ie rastafarians, perhaps.

[TMA_1]

new followers in ethiopia?? lol

try thousands of years ago. In fact there is a legend that the queen of sheba (which I believe she came from modern day ethiopia) had a child from solomon, and that is whree the line of ethiopian kings came from. Obviously it cant be proven, but I dont see it as far from truth.

[Caid Ivik]

New followers from 6th century...

[Wolf]

Well, in many ways, Christianity was as sect of the Jewish faith. Over time, however, the differences became so great in terms of tradition, doctrine, and creed that they are now different religions.

About the Passion of Christ, I agree with Anathema's statements, and even though the Romans crucified Christ technically under the demands from Jewish leaders, Jesus himself was considered to be Jewish. Furthermore, this isn't even saying very much at all! A lot of people were Jewish. People, in general, do bad things. I am sure that if things took place under different circumstances with different religions, then, there, too, would Christ have been crucified. It does not reflect badly on the Jewish faith at all in that it would have happened regardless of the particular faith -- Jesus was going to die. Christ was killed not because of the Jewish people or of the actions of the Romans, but because that was what was meant to happen.

[Caid Ivik]

Not that "it was ment", but "he ment" it. You know his words from cross, "forget them this, for they do not know what are they doing". Without his death, there would be no sufficient sacrifice for our sins, no new blood pact of whole mankind with God, no resurrection, no christianity. Blood of Jesus is blessing, not a curse.

[shygirl4]

on the BBC news today was a story about Italian scientists who with the help of digital photography have descovered a new image on the reverse of the Turin shroud. I know its not on topic but the turin shroud and the death of christ are linked.

Shy  ::)

p.s. the image was a face

[Mahdi]

on the BBC news today was a story about Italian scientists who with the help of digital photography have descovered a new image on the reverse of the Turin shroud. I know its not on topic but the turin shroud and the death of christ are linked.

Shy

[Dude_Doc]

I don't understand why they all take on the blame. I mean, many Chistian people has done bad things, that doesn't mean every Christian person is evil. Sure, Jews had their worst moments during World War 2, and even before the war. But that is all over. I don't think there is much anti-Jewish hate out there because of WW2, but rather that the Jews have occupied large parts of Palestine. And those aren't even Jews, but Israelians, a complete differece.

[Inoculator9]

I watched the Passion of the Christ yesterday. Before that I heard it was extremely anti semitic but from what I saw Gibson doesn't show us anything else then what the Bible already said. I think that most critics who say it's anti semitic are either not christians or are christians who don't wish to be reminded about the less appealing parts of the Bible (and are therefore hypocrites).

There's also the controversial Bible quote "his blood is on us and our children", wich was in the movie but not subtitled (wich I think was quite cowardly). I don't have problem with jews but the quote does seem to imply that the jews, as a people, are responsible for the death of christ. What do you guys think?

The problem with the whole thing is: the original Passion of the Christ was developed as anti-Jewish propoganda :P That's an accepted explanation for it's origins.

Secondly, the Pope being infallible in religious matters absolved the Jews of all blame. So, if you want to call yourself Catholic, you've got to agree :P Mel not agreeing with the Pope in that respect, only strengthens my opinion that he is the anti-christ.

on the BBC news today was a story about Italian scientists who with the help of digital photography have descovered a new image on the reverse of the Turin shroud. I know its not on topic but the turin shroud and the death of christ are linked.

I'm not even going to address that...

I don't have problem with jews but the quote does seem to imply that the jews, as a people, are responsible for the death of christ.

People are responsible for his death, some were Jews, but they were just people. We don't say that Christians were responsible for the Holocaust because the Nazis were all Christians (I don't mean to imply they followed it as anyone else would, but that's what they called themselves).

[TMA_1]

you are referring to "passion films" inoc, and I think it is kinda unfair to imply that mel gibson is making a passion film, and by the way most of those films are really old during heated anti semetic times.

also to say that most nazis are christian is kinda silly. though you had reason to say that, as whoever said that the jews were responsible for the death of christ just said something really anti semetic in my book. That is a huge peeve with me, not a good thing to say at all.

I mean that is so silly. It is like saying that the greeks were at fault to kill socretes. Hello? lol socretes was a greek, and that is why he was killed by his own people.

that isnt even a good analogy because the romans were the ones that really did the true killing of christ, the jews were not at ALL responsible for the death of christ, in the end it is everybody who killed christ.

(that is why mel gibsons hand is the one that held the nail that piereced christs hand in the film. showing it was all of us that did it.)

[Caid Ivik]

If it was this one, I swear I'l start going to church every week.

Who is it?  ;D

[leo]

lol Mahdi, I think that many ppl wud enjoy going to church if they were given the second option. ;D

[TMA_1]

Im afraid you are wrong about that mahdi, as soon as people see the "WB" sign they will run away in terror.  ;)

[Inoculator9]

also to say that most nazis are christian is kinda silly. though you had reason to say that, as whoever said that the jews were responsible for the death of christ just said something really anti semetic in my book. That is a huge peeve with me, not a good thing to say at all.

In there own minds they were.