Dune 7... or Dune 7 & Dune 8? :(

[NeoDevilbane]

"The story is so large it is best told in two volumes" it now says on BH/KJA's website at http://www.dunenovels.com/news/dune_update.html.

How is it "best told in two volumes"? Ludicrous. Larger in scope than the original novel, which spans years? Frank outlined "Dune 7," not "Dune 7" and "Dune 8."

While I'm excited to read the story outlined in a dying FH's outline for "Dune 7" and have a reasonable confidence in their abilities to not make it a total suck-fest, it just bothers me that BH and KJA simply won't admit they just aren't imbued with the same writing prose as Frank Herbert to make a story "so large" into a single novel. Even Byron Merritt, grandfather of FH, admits in an interview on a link on www.dunenovels.com that BH/KJA lack (in regard to the original prequel trilogy) the prose that FH had.

I'm sorry, but as much as I enjoyed the "House" prequel trilogy, I could easily imagine Frank having combined the events of all three books (Atreides, Harkonnen, and Corrino) into a single Dune-esque novel and making it work, for lack of a better word, poetically.

That BH and KJA can't accomplish the same feat with Dune 7 (i.e., making an epic story, even one evidently solidly outlined by FH beginning to end, in anything other than more than one novel) is fine and understandable -- after all, there is/was only ONE Frank Herbert -- but don't bullshit the fans with lines like "The story is so large it is best told in two volumes."

Best told in two volumes? Says who? FH outlined one "volume," not two.

- Neo

[Emperor Harkonnen]

cool!

we only have to wait one a half year for dune7. who cares wheter it is two volumes or not. as long as we get the story. :)

[Anathema]

I care because they are abandoning every shred of the plans FH had made for Dune 7 only to squeeze every last penny out of his legacy they can- 2 books equals more money then 1.

[Andrew]

Also, they probably couldn't put it into one book, because of thier writing abilities. (It would probably be bad if in one book) They seem to write multiple books to tell a single story.

The odd thing is, their books still seem to be 700 pages long. If they cut out some unessecary chatter in the books and made them 500 pages, I would be happy and the books would be much better to read.

[Inoculator9]

I say, the longer the better. I've read 1,200 page books before, and they're fun, but pretty nasty, lol... Dune 7, as they want it, would seem to be around 1,500. So... until we know what these notes say, I think we should shut up and let them do what they think best.

[Anathema]

There's no chance in hell we're going to see the unedited notes as written by daddy Herbert, so we might as well forget entirely about them and judge Dune 7/8 for what it turns out to be.

And obviously books of 900 pages and above would have to be good, otherwise you'd simply lay it aside somewhere in between...lol. I just hope Anderson and KJ make good use of those notes.

[TMA_1]

The only reason why they have to write their books with 700 pages, or even in two sets, is because they dont have the talent to minimalize a book down to it's essensial parts. That is a big problem with writers, either they dont write enough or write too mcuh that is unneccisary.

[Emperor Harkonnen]

I think that more than 400 pages is enough. I don't like reading, and I read very slow. use like 45 mins to read 10 pages. so I would prefer short books.

[NHJ BV]

I myself prefer thick books; the longer the better; then at least I don't finish the book in a week or less  :)

[Inoculator9]

TMA, no book should ever be reduced to it's essential parts, and you shouldn't think that anything you read is. Supporting info is very important, and god knows Frank included a lot of it.

[Andrew]

True, but as I read Machine Crusade, they repeat the same info in each characters chapter, it's as if they are using the same paragraphs, but rewriting them.

I don't know how many times they describe Norma Cenvas working conditions on Poritrin. (3 or 4?)

They make the book as if you don't need to read the previous one in order to read this one. And if that is the case I might as well have just waited and read the third one. (as they would explain everything in the third one what happened in the previous two)

I like the books, but they seem to put too much unesscesary information in them. Maybe the last 2/3 of the machine crusade is better, with less repeated information.

[Inoculator9]

I suppose so, but such is the problem with co-authoring. When you write series, you repeat stuff at the beginning from the previous installment. Exchanging chapters and drafts as they did, might make them have inadvertantly included some of that stuff, since it changes hands so often.

[TMA_1]

maybe you didnt understand what I meant. You shouldnt fill a book for the sake of filling it. You shouldnt add too much info that isnt pertinant to the book. Like any good editor of a movie, an author and editor need to sit down and take apart anything that isnt directly important to the story. You just dont add a bunch of fluff to a book to fill it, brian and kevin do that a lot.

You dont need a two piece set to take the place where one book could do well. A lot of info is necissary for a good story and feel of reality to that story, as frank said. Too much information, and too mcuh information in the wrong places only destroyes the depth of the story and characters.

[Andrew]

And make you skip paragraphs becuase you already read it 100 pages ago. ;)

Thats what I'm doing with Machine Crusade, skipping the info I already know. :(

[NeoDevilbane]

You people need to understand that at the same time they're now saying, "The story is so large it is best told in two volumes," there's also interviews on their site where they openly admit they're *adding* a lot of their own ideas/subplots into the mix.

Maybe it IS told best in two volumes... if they are adding in all their own material into a dying FH's outline for Dune 7.

Not cool, IMHO. That they would be taking certain liberties with the overall flow, etc. of Dune 7 is expected - they're the authors - but adding whole slews of subplots, etc. to what they also claim was a COMPLETE outline of Dune 7 by FH... c'mon.

- Neo

[Egeides]

Just a remark: two volumes for Dune 7 will make more cash in a smaller amount of time (since Dune 7 is waited by many).

Ohhhh... I'm suuuuuure they didn't even SAW that, but it just happens to be a fact that happens at the same time that they believe two volumes will be better "for the fans" (which gives all the legetimacy to their argument).

Hey, did anyone saw where my big fishy tail went?? I just got bored running after it and forgot it somewhere. Who cares...

[Inoculator9]

Fishy tail? That was necessary :P

I still say:

Until we know what these notes say, I think we should shut up and let them do what they think best.

[Vanguard3000]

But the more time we spend shutting up means less time for complaining.

Personally, I see the new Dune novels in the same way as the new Star Wars movies:  I saw the first one, expecting something amazing, and was sorely disappointed.  Thus, I'm not expecting much for anything that follows.  Seems logical to me.

[Andrew]

Don't judge a book by its cover. :)

Well, I guess you could. ;)

[GhostHunter]

But the more time we spend shutting up means less time for complaining.

Personally, I see the new Dune novels in the same way as the new Star Wars movies:

[Egeides]

To me, it has nothing to do with Frank's writing being better. Brian has the right to write. But he should be honest and what he does doesn't seem like that. If complaining means to express our view on something we disagree, then I believe we should evaluate well what is worth complainig about and discuss/laugh as much as it's worth the energy cost. That's why I wrote a hopefully constructive message to smile a bit in front of this ;)

[Vanguard3000]

I wouldn't call it a more militaristic time; they merely wrote more militaristic stuff into their books than Frank did.  Personally, I prefer Frank's neglect of the battle scenes.  I really don't care who slashed whos throat at the battle of Arrakeen.  We're giving the jist of the tactics (the rockets against the frigates' navigation components; the blasting of the wall; etc) and we're put back into the political/philosophical elements.  I'm not saying I'd be angry if there were battle scenes.  I'm just saying they're not all that important.

But I do agree that, as stand-alone books, the prequels are decent books, if a bit shallow.

[GhostHunter]

Sorry, I forgot to specify which prequels, obviously the Jihad-series but also I think the earlier days leading up to Dune were pretty blood-drawn even without Brian going his own way. And I agree with you; it shouldn't be all slitting throats and all but this was the battle that brought upon the downfall of an Emperor whose families reign extended thousands of years and brought the prophet Muad-Dib to power - I think it was decently important.

[Leto le Juste]

A thin book is better than a book with too much info because a thin one is a means to imagine

[GhostHunter]

Science Fiction is enough of a marvel as is, they shouldn't leave me to paint every scene, especially not such a large one in the whole Dune series.