Tournament Rules

[Navaros]

I said if Westwood is willing to redirect game reports and make our ladder the official one I am willing to change the rules to fit whatever they say. Right now there are no official set of rules out there so I can't do that.

And the ladder is the way it is because the idea behind it was to provide something beneficial to those that still played the game. Who cares what conception level the people playing Emperor today have, if they want certain rules then I'm more then willing to provide them.

Why should it have unwanted rules when this is something being done to benifit the *current* players especially when the vast majority of them agree on it. It doesn't create any huge imbalance in the game and almost every game reported to the ladder so far has been above both the 3 and 1 minute guidelines anyhow.

you say that there are currently no Official Rules. that statement is incorrect. Westwood never issued a press release which invalidated any of their Tournament Rules - therefore all of their Tournament Rules are still valid. you are convieniently choosing to ignore that fact.

if the vast majority of players want all games to be $30 000 Solaris, would you do that too, and call those "valid "fed2k Ladder games"? i'd hope not: because that would be a ridiculous farce - not a strategic Tournament. the current defiling of the 3-minute Rule is only slightly-less ridiculous.

the point of the Tournament Settings and Rules made by Westwood was so that Emperor was played in a *strategic* way. changing any Westwood Rule throws the balance that Westwood intended way out of whack.

I remind you of a quote from Chris, he posted this on your site a few months ago:

"The idea of a minimum game time, say 3 minutes, would give each player a fair chance to build a defenceable base, or counter-force."

if your ladder does not conform to the *Strategy* standard with which Westwood made Emperor, then a "Win" on your ladder doesn't really mean much at all. a Win on the Westwood Ladder meant something because the Rules did not cater to people with little skill; even if they were the majority. a Win on the WOL Ladder was real a accomplishment because it could only be done by the Winner succeeding within the Rules that Westwood put in place to ensure every game required skill and strategy to Win.

i could prove to you in great detail how exactly getting rid of the 3 Minute Rule throws the intended balance as per Chris' above-quote out of whack, but it would require far more words than would be feasible for discussing this with you.

the bottom line is: the developers at Westwood were trained professionals who invested much time and R&D in making Rules for Emperor that ensured fair, balanced, and strategic gameplay. no one on your site has that qualification (except Chris, and he has even stated why the 3 Minute Rule is a good idea as I've just proven), therefore no one on your site (except perhaps Chris) should have any right to change Westwood's Rules and ruin the experience for those of us who are good enough at Emperor and understand the intracacies well-enough to appreciate the value of those Rules.

[wraith126]

actually more than 2/3 of people play 10k :D

and the 3 min rule wasnt made to make games "longer" or "balanced"

it was made to abort laggy/slow games

u just abuse the 3 minute rule and most people here know it

u quit when ur being owned and hide behind the rule

[cbrick04]

LOL, I think he hit the nail on the head. Hehehehehe

[Navaros]

wraith and cbrick: if you go *READ* my quote from a former WESTWOOD EMPLOYEE you will see that the 3-minute Rule was made for BALANCE REASONS

for your information, it is *IMPOSSIBILE* to be owned under 3-minutes in Emperor unless both players stay in the game. Westwood has declared that any game which does not last for 3-minutes or longer is NOT A GAME. therefore if anyone Quits a game under 3-minutes, then a game DID NOT EXIST and no "owning" can have taken place.

[ken124578]

Nope, i read his original post & it was edited out later by him (not one of the mods) probably because he was giving some false info. :P

[Navaros]

ken you are saying that Chris was giving false info? ::)

[Gobalopper]

He changed it for a reason. Why are you basing your argument off of something he posted and then shortly after modified to correct it?

[Navaros]

He changed it for a reason. Why are you basing your argument off of something he posted and then shortly after modified to correct it?

what "reason" is that, exactly? you putting pressure on him to censor himself because the fed2k Universe will fall apart by Chris proving that i am right?

[Gobalopper]

Yes Nav I told Chris that he had to change it because if he didn't everything would come crashing down. ::)

[sendakon]

I have been on this game since it has been out and i have to say i never have needed the 3 MIN rule if u cant defend your self in the first 3 MINS u need play the computer a lil bit more. I would have to say the 3 MIN rule is for laggy games and bad connections, ELITE players wouldnt need a 3 MIN rule, if i rush its far past 5 mins.

Damm if u lose your ass in 3 MINS u deserve to lose ATR or not!!!!!!

[Navaros]

Yes Nav I told Chris that he had to change it because if he didn't everything would come crashing down. ::)

*someone* said something to him.

my quote was just a small part of his post

he had made a big long spiel

then a few minutes later, it mysteriously disappears for no reason at all, and is replaced by a few simple words which totally contradict what he had just posted moments earlier.

if it wasn't you who told him to silence himself, then *someone* did. he had no reason at all to change his statement, other than the fact that his statement had proven that what I have been saying all along is correct - and that would be very "inconvenient" for fed2k to let become public

if there is a better explanation as to why he mysteriously removed his comments a few minutes after he made them and that thread likewise vanished, then i'd certainly love to hear it

[Warskum]

Nav stop hiding behind the 3 minute rule, just admit it ur a noob who can`t even stop a rush in the first 3 minutes. Why don`t u go play Age of Empires, cuz there noobs like u get 45 minutes to build there forces.

[cbrick04]

Nav - a while back u and i played 3 games in a row. You quit all 3 cuz i started kicking your ass and you got scard. Thats just as good as loosing in my book. Just because you found a way to exploit the rules, you think you dont loose. Maybe we should change the name of the rule to " 3 min evaluation rule " .

Just before 3 min is up evaluate your situation and if your opponent looks stronger then QUIT. The fact remains that you are a QUITTER Nav. And just because you can justify it in your own mind doesn't make it right. And I know whats coming next, ur gonna tell me that I never beat u cuz im a gay noob, but you havn't played a full game with me in a year, you always quit, maybe learn how to defend against a rush? I always have to kick ur ass with a noob nick cuz u wont play cbrick.And you know this is true cuz i tell you who i am while im kicking your ass and you quit , lol. But all in all this game is dead so why do you care? Go do somthing else or learn to take your losses like man instead of wining like a little girl.

[Navaros]

cbrick - you could never beat me if your life depended on it. i have beat you millions of times. you have beat me zero times.

i have proven that Westwood does not declare games under 3-minutes to even be games, therefore it is not possible to beat anybody who quits at under 3 minutes

a person can quit under 3-minutes for *ANY* reason under the Sun, and that game does not count. it was not a game. it was a warm-up, a drill, a dress rehearsal - anything *BUT* a game. that is the Rule that Westwood made and that is an Official Rule. Westwood never said: "you can only quit for lag reasons". you would have to be an IDIOT of an RTS player to stay in a game that you do not like the events of when Westwood said it is ok for you to quit under 3 minutes and if so, no game has been played.

the only n00bs are guys who try to pretend Westwood's Rules do not exist because they have no hope in Hell of ever winning unless they rush under 3 LOL

[cbrick04]

Nav - you mave have beaten me a couple of years ago when I first got the game, but now you will not even play a game with me. I come to your games with different nicks and kick your ass all of the time, and I even tell you when I do. The reason I come to kill you with noob nicks is not to steal your strats, but to pay you back for calling my 9 year old kid a queer noob. You must be a very tough guy. Maybe someday you will grow up and realize that sometimes you get beat because there are players as good or better than you. There are many players better than you are. But is Navs little world you are the best.

Maybe when Emp comes back up we can play and settle this. Probably not because you are afraid to come to my game and you will kick me from your game lol. I think it a bit sad that we havn't finished your tourney cuz the last player, no matter who it was, would have stopped your ass and I would have laughed.

Anyway , post what ever response you want but I'm done arguing with you. If you want a game come find me when Emp comes back up. Id gladly show you who is boss.

[Navaros]

cbrick - you have never beaten me, ever.

i *have* beaten you, many times.

what n00b nicks did you beat with me, exactly? tell me. post them right here in this thread. you say you've beaten me with n00b nicks, so back your statement up: what nicks have you ever beaten me with? if you can't answer this with a specific and straight answer, then that is proof that you have never beaten me.

[wraith126]

nav - u say people "arnt man enuf" to go into ur game with thier real nicks

but everytimei join ur game i get kicked, then paged being called a fag/stupid n00b/loser

so wheres ur straight answer?

[Scy]

fear the pain!

[Nyarlathotep]

*someone* said something to him.

Chris doesn't change something he stated, just because someone said (told) something to him.

Ever figured he changed it beacuse he looked it up and noticed he was wrong ? You are probably going to reply that it's impossible, but it has the same change as your accusation.

[Navaros]

Chris was not "wrong". The very idea is ridiculous. If he "looked it up" as you say, then he can post the evidence he has found.

*NO ONE* has ever produced one shred of evidence that Westwood ever said that you may only quit for lag reasons.

The *FACT* of the matter is: Westwood did not consider any "game" which does not last for 3-Minutes or longer to even *BE* a game. That is a fact.

The facts alone - and Chris' statement to boot - prove that my position on this matter is correct.

newbies who didn't even *PLAY* on the WOL Ladder and were not around for the Westwood Boards flock to this thread and pretend that they know what they're talking about. that is funny. funny, and stupid. they have no basis at all for their wild speculation that Westwood thinks it's only ok to quit for lag reasons. they are just spewing such speculation due to the simple fact that they are not skilled enough at Emperor to be able to Win unless they rush under 3-minutes into the game. their collective lack of skill and uninformed hate for Westwood Rules that they are incapable of dealing with because they are not good players in no way changes the fact that Westwood did not consider any "game" lasting less than 3-minutes to be a game.

[cbrick04]

Nav are you one of those " no rush 10 min ok?" guys?

Westwood made the 3 min rule, i dont think they intended it to be an "out" if you are loosing. If you would not have quit all the games I played with you, they may have lasted 3.5 or 4 min before you were dead. But you quit before 3 instead, you were not even dead yet, just really jacked up lol.

You are just mad because I have my base built, have money and units to kick your ass all in 2.5 min. But thats cuz Im a noob and cant win against someone playing guild, 30k, atr on fishers. If I played my 9 year old son with your setts he would kill me too if I just sat back and let him build niabs until his heart was content. How 'bout we play a game with these rules Nav? I make niabs, elites and minos , but you dont attack till I have lots of them ok?

Bottom line is , maybe you should learn to defend against a rush and then you wont have to quit so many games.

But there is 1 thing I agree with Nav about. The fed2k ladder. I think its great work Gob that you set it up, its WAY better than what we had (nothing). The only problem that I have with it is that people like Nav exploit its weaknesses. IC Nav play all the noobs to get points, rarely does he play anyone worth a shit, and when he does he usually looses. Now... the problem that I have with the ladder is that games can be recorded without all players knowledge. When playing a BC or QM on Westwood it is understood that it will be recorded. But if someone is recording to Fed2k and they start to loose, then turn of the program. You think Nav never does that? lol......probably 800 times lol. On WOl, once you start a game, it got recorded no matter what, unless you played Nav and he quit in under 3.

By the way Nav , the rule is not the "QUIT in under 3 rule." You just exploit the rule to gain points and make yourself feel better about getting your ass kicked so quickly.

[Navaros]

cbrick - first of all i must thank you for proving that you're just a newbie with a big mouth. you say you've beaten me, then when i ask you to prove that, you conveniently ignore that request (because you have never beat me) and hope no one else will notice. good job!

what you "think" about the Under 3 Rule is irrelevant. you have not been playing the game for ages like me. you were not a member of the Westwood Emperor Boards. you have never dominated the WOL Ladders, as i have month after month. basically, you've never really accomplished anything with this game. i do remember beating you quite a few times tho. the truth is, you're not good at all. you even lose to guys like scymaxim LOL

the only thing that matters about the Under 3 Rule is what *WESTWOOD* has said. not your petty newbie opinion which is based on *nothing* other the your lack of skill. Westwood has said that anyone can quit for *ANY* reason. it's pretty simple. i don't know why this concept is so hard for you to understand

you can not have had me "almost dead" in any game that lasted less than 3-minutes because *I WAS NEVER ALIVE*.

i have no problem waiting til you build as much Minos, Elites, and NIABS as you want before i touch you. you'd get still owned, just as you have been owned in every real game that we ever played vs. each other.

it speaks very strongly to your lack of skill that you can't ever Win unless you rush Under 3 minutes and the other person stays in the game. only newbies take that attitude because they do not understand that Emperor is balanced in the late-game.

you think i need to "exploit" the fed2k "ladder" ROFL - that statement is simply absurd. i have dominated the real WOL Ladders month after month, and the competition on those was quite literally 50 000% tougher. there is no competition on fed2k "ladder" for an elite player. getting to number 1 on the fed2k "ladder" is remarkably easy because it's not a real competition. Emp is a dead game. almost zero good players are left. Emp will always be a dead game.

and before you mention any cheater's name in this thread as i'm sure you will; i have never played vs. cheaters in Tournament games and the only even half-decent "players" (still no competition for *me*: would be for *you*, however) have been proven to cheat at one time or another on either this or the old Westwood boards.

btw i don't mostly play all n00bs on the fed2k "ladder" because i'd lose. i play all n00bs because that is mostly 100% of the Emperor players left on WOL, excluding those who have been proven to cheat. FYI, *everybody* on the fed2k "ladder" plays mostly n00bs. i don't know why you keep blabbering your big mouth about my losing, because i've never lost to you or any of your newbie cronies. :D

[cbrick04]

LOL Nav you crack me up. If you talk to Scymaxim, he will tell you that the night that he recorded that game, I beat him 3 times in a row before that game, but he didnt record those and I didnt have the proxy at that time. I kinda felt bad so I tried to beat him atr vs atr with mongooses only lol. Ask him. And the really funny part is......are you guys ready? heheheheh You make fun of me for loosing to Scymaxim, but I see that he beat you. Its on the ladder for all to see. Game #112873733. And i think you need to apoligize to Scymaxim because he is a pretty good player, obviously better than you. I think you forgot to quit in under 3.

Just because you have been playing for 6 months longer than I doesnt make me a noob. And you dont have to call everyone names to feel big, it just makes you look like a 14 year old punk kid with no self esteem. Every good player on Emp has been called a "gay noob" by you.

As for you dominating the WOL ladders Im sure you quit a lot of games in under 3 to get there. And just cuz u r at the top of that ladder at times just means that you played more noobs than everyone else. Im sure if you play a qm and see a player like brenn or harkdawg you quit so "there was never a game".

And btw I just played online for hours without freezing, 2,3 and 4 player games, so looks like maybe WOL is back up. So lets settle this like men and record some games. Ill even play your "3 min no rush bullshit". But if you say im a gay noob and you won't play me then we all know what that means ,lol, chicken.

As for your noob buddies that you always play with, you say there are no good players left, but i see alot of players in your tourney that would flat smoke you. Why do you never play with them? Also you accuse others of coming to ur games to steal ur strats(using different nicks). But in ur tourney you get to watch all games and then play just the last one. Seems to me that maybe u r needing some new strats, lol. Watching all of the games might give u and edge, but doubt that you could win anyway.

[Navaros]

cbrick - i've been playing this for alot longer than 6 months ahead of you, and i've beat you a million times. but you're right, it's not the length of time that you play that makes you a newbie or not - it's the fact that even after all this time you *still* don't play well and are incapable of winning any games unless you rush Under 3.

you should not comment on the WOL Ladders seeing as you've never particpated in them and have no idea what you're talking about. it was impossible to get to the top of the WOL QM Ladder by only beating n00bs. utterly impossible. you wouldn't last 5 minutes with some of the guys i've beaten on there.

FYI again, i didn't lose to ScyMaxim. if you checked that stats on that game, you would have seen that i had ZERO SPICE. now ask yourself: how does a game end with one player having "ZERO SPICE"? Only *ONE* possible answer, and if you weren't a n00b and could read stats, you would have realized that. it was a test game to see if my proxy worked. previously i was using an old proxy and had won about 15 games with it which did not report. so i had to test my new download and scymaxim was the guy who i tested it with.

[cbrick04]

So when do we play? It appears that u r on lets play now? ur post is only 1 min behind mine.