Agamemnon

[Emperor Harkonnen]

What is Agamemnon? Leto mentioned it in PD2:HH. Something about House Atreides being cursed after the days of Agamemnon.

[nampigai]

Agamemnon was the son of Atreus and the brother of Menelaus.

Homer said he was the king of either Mycenae,

[Nefud]

Yup, that's true!

And his name was Atreides, after his father. (Atreides=the son of Atreus)

Haven't you read Ilion at school??

Before the Greek army sets off to Troy, Agamemnon sacrifices his son "to have good winds" which will take them to Troy. His wife (I think Klutaimnestra /or something like that/) goes mad when she gets to know this, and she swears to kill her husband after he returnes from the war. When Agamemnon arrives at home with his concubine, Cassandra (who can see into the future, but Zeus put some sort of spell on her, or cursed her, and no one believes her after it /that's why Troy fell for the Greeks, because she knew, that there are Greek warriors in the Horse/ and she knew, that they are going to be killed by the mad wife) they take a bath, and this is when the wife strikes at them, and kills them.

That's Agamemnon's short story... ;D

[nemafakei]

Ag. sacrifices Iphegenia, his daughter, because one of his men killed Artemis' sacred deer, so he had to pay for it else he would be trapped by Poseidon in Mycenae.

Clytemnestra (in English, but in greek, K/YTEMNHCTPH), along with her new lover, Aegisthus (or HGIC(-)OC Agamemmnon's cousin) kill them. Electra (H/EKTPH, another daughter) opposes Clytemnestra, but cannot do anything until Orestes, the son of Aga and Cly returns to avenge his father's murder - Killing Aegisthus and Clytemnestra- supposedly removing the curse of Atreus (in the play Electra).

And it's the Iliad, not Ileon. And "his name was Atreides" - Yes that was an epithet his, and of Menelaus.

[Gunseng_Harkonnen]

It is possible that Atreides family had beggining in as far past? It was thousands of years...

[quoudam72]

Yes, that is how the Atreides trace their bloodline.

[Emperor Harkonnen]

cool, but what about the Harkonnens.

Where does their name come from?

[Gunseng_Harkonnen]

Ahonen, Imonen, Happonen...

*looks at Finland*

I think Frank Herbert didn`t place Harkonnen as very noble House, they hadn`t great past, they only had their position because of their money, they bought their position.

[Ligic_Tha_Master]

Imonen is not a Finnish name...

Why you even posted that Gunseng?

[Vanguard3000]

The Dune Encyclopedia says the Harkonnens are descendants of the Romanov's (the bloodlines of the Russian Czars).  Although the writer probably meant a close relative of the Romanov's, though, for obvious reasons (unless that old woman really was Anastasia :)).

[Mahdi]

Interesting tidbit:

The ancient Greek family  of Atreus is also credited with the creation of the first jury.  Well, not them, Apollo, but he did it to save the family.

[Nefud]

The Harkonnen name??

Well I`ve heard about a Russian city called Harkov...

It`s quite resembling to Harkonnen isn`t it?

[quoudam72]

I thought that about the Harkonnens Vangaurd3000, not in those terms but along those lines.

[nemafakei]

You're thinking of Kharkov, in the Ukraine, The_Baron.

Romanovs... possibly... a distaff line is also possible.

[Acriku]

Was Herbert getting at that the Atreides were the Allies and the Harkonnens were the Reds? Sounds reasonable to me.

[nemafakei]

No, Acricku!!!!

The reds were the communists who THREW OUT the Romanovs (well killed them - the Tsar abdicated voluntarily)

And the Ancient Greek line of Atreus is not continued in modern Greek royalty.

[Acriku]

It SEEMED reasonable  ;)

[Emperor Harkonnen]

The Harkonnens have got russian names like, Vladimir and Dmitri. So that brings them close to russia

[nemafakei]

That's certainly useful, since Leto is Greek (was a woman's name...) and Paul was christened Paul Orestes Atreides (see above - NG: Paul also avenged his fathers death which was caused by his mother's side).

Harkonnen... Souunds germanic... could be one of the Kaiser's relatives, since Tsar Nicholas and Kaiser Wilhelm were related through Queen Victoria...

[nampigai]

Yes Nema I've been wondering about Letos name too, maybe it's a name for both females, like michel(le) and Kim etc.

Well I read some where that the Harkonnen descended from the Byzantine empire I can't remember where though :P

[Nefud]

"You're thinking of Kharkov, in the Ukraine, The_Baron. "

Yes, but in my language (the Hungarian) it's Harkov.

[Gunseng_Harkonnen]

German...quite possible, I know somebody name Harkoers

[Ligic_Tha_Master]

Baron, you know that Finland and Hungary are cousin-languages?

[Gunseng_Harkonnen]

...and Harker *grins with proud*

[Nefud]

Yes I know!!!  ;D ;D ;D

fish=hal(Hun)=kala(Fin)  ;D

Hmmmm.... yes Harkonnen could be German. The end of the word "konnen" reminds me to "k