IBM and the Holocaust

[DjCiD]

http://www.edwinblack.com/index.html

After reading Mahdi's thread about Hitler and the VW Beetle it made me think of an article I read about two years back about this book entitled 'IBM and the Holocaust: The Strategic Alliance between Nazi Germany and America's Most Powerful Corporation' by Edwin Black. It tells about how IBM used the computers of that era, which were basically calculating machines and punch cards, to keep toll on things like how many Jews and Polish people were marched from the ghettos into the death camps and aided in census taking so the Nazis would have list of Jewish people to round up. I have yet to read the entire book and am very disturbed by the fact that IBM has yet to pay for their War Crimes. They did not just sell these machines and walk away. They had to service them monthly regardless of there location to the Death Camps and the only place to get more punch cards for the machine was from none other than IBM. When they needed new categories on the punch cards IBM was the one that drafted up the mock-cards for the Nazis.

How is it a company could last this long without owning up for what they did during the Holocaust? This makes me sick.

[Inoculator9]

There goes my ancient laptop :P

That's true, it's sick what some companies will do for money. To this day I refuse to use the IBM computers that fill most schools.

[Dante]

They weren't the only ones. Bush's Grandfather sold weapons and other supplies to the Nazis right up to the end. I lose track of the others but that's the most interesting.

On the other hand, why should a company pay for what it's staff did half a century ago? If you want to go after someone, go after the individuals. The company has little blame.

[ordos45]

1940 election, the guy running against FDR was backed by Nazi money. He never knew about it during the campaign though. (Isn't history class not a waste of time?)

[Navaros]

yes IBM is one of many Nazi-aiding corporations which has yet to pay for it's crimes against humanity

there are also carmakers and clothing companies who are in the same boat. ie: Hugo Boss

the Directors of these companies should all be put on trial for War Crimes

[Edric O]

Speaking of the devil...

"In any war, the winning side has all of its crimes buried and forgotten."

- Adolf Hitler

[Egeides]

We could also talk about USA (perhaps some other Allies also, but USA was directing everything and was the one in position to do so) bringing Germany intellectuals and covering them (those who perpetrated crimes included). Some were brang in Argentina for exemple, and came back after, serving as a very useful implementation to the intelligentzia.

[ordos45]

We could also talk about USA (perhaps some other Allies also, but USA was directing everything and was the one in position to do so) bringing Germany intellectuals and covering them (those who perpetrated crimes included). Some were brang in Argentina for exemple, and came back after, serving as a very useful implementation to the intelligentzia.

The Soviets did the same thing. For all their horrendous crimes, the German scientists were...useful.

[SurlyPIG]

*sigh*

Why does every topic inevitably turn into a session of American bashing?

I've never cared much for IBM up to this point, and after hearing this, I do even less...

[ordos45]

*sigh*

Why does every topic inevitably turn into a session of American bashing?

I've never cared much for IBM up to this point, and after hearing this, I do even less...

Well if you wish to blame non-American coporations...Mitsubishi used American POWs as slave labor in direct violation of the Geneva Conventions.

[SurlyPIG]

Actually I'd rather blame each company individually. Anything less is prejudicial. I was referring to Egedeis' post...and Edric's to a lesser degree.

[Egeides]

ACE, please a huge difference: It's not American bashing but American administration opposing. I do not believe Americans have a fault in all this, and I believe the reason why USA is in such a situation is simply because

1- It is more powerful thus able to do what it does

2- It has a lobbying system that's aweful and lobby = money searching (in some other places, the same act is considered bribing)

Places with money/material benefit having the strong arm got the same thing. We could look at kingdoms or other corporations. But in USA, it also has a strong arm in politics.

About this nazi thing, we should check but I believe other Allies that got the opportunity possibly tried to do same: get useful intelligentsia...

[SurlyPIG]

Did it ever occur to you that some of the German scientists had guns shoved in their face and were ordered to perform those experiments? And you said the US and other, not the British and other, no mention of the USSR, Japan, nothing.

[Egeides]

What I said is "(perhaps some other Allies also, but USA was directing everything and was the one in position to do so)" which says the opposite.

About having a gun on your face, well

1- It doesn't permit to cloak from tribunal

2- There wasn't only these guys... (perhaps the movie Amen would say a bit, at the end)

Since quite a while, the government doesn't refute anything talking about the nazi vs US part but refuse to answer questions. Normally, questions are refutated when scholars bring such things. It's not "USA is bad, nananah" but "as lords, corporations are defending their interests. And as lords, corporations use politics to do so".

[TMA_1]

the reason why ace is because you have a lot of idealists on this site that try to find a blame for the problems of the world. america has done crappy things and is a super power so why not blame it? You are dealing with non americans as well, of course they could care less about america. te sad thing is they also tend to take that discrimination and rub it off onto the american people as well. and then when somebody states these facts they are totally bashed for it. its all just silly.

[Edric O]

...and then you have TMA, who blames "idealists" (one of the most sweeping generalizations I've ever seen) for all the world's problems. ::)

TMA, pay more attention to what me and Egeides actually say, and stop whining about those "evil idealists".

[TMA_1]

what you guys say helps feed into my ideas that idealism is dangerous. I listen to you, then realize I am right.

I am not attacking your intelligence or your will, because you are a very cool guy and are knowledgable in many ways, only attacking an ideal you hold to, just like you attack mine. unlike some attacks I make and are made against me, I hope you dont take what I say personally, because I dont want to offend ya.

[Egeides]

It depends of your definition of "idealist". I am an idealist in the sense that I have an "ideal" that I AIM for, but aiming for it doesn't mean I believe it will ever be reached entirely. This is different from those also called "idealists" who see things as already ideal or as possibly ideal. I want realism, even if it's sad or catastrophic.

[SurlyPIG]

Makes more sense to me than blaming one country like you guys do.

[Egeides]

Let's come back a few years in the past ACE. You remember colonial France and Britain? Well it's exactly this: blaming one country. I believe USA is neo-colonial (new form of colonialism).