Hitler and his beliefs

[Acriku]

Hitler never used those verses though, at least you haven't shown any evidence of him using them.

How are those verses you posted not out-of-context? I just provided evidence that they are so I would like to hear why you think they aren't.

Well gob, just look at...

Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?

-Matthew 23:33

Hitler took Jesus to heart when he said:

"My feelings as a Christian points me to my Lord and Savior as a fighter. It points me to the man who once in loneliness, surrounded by a few followers, recognized these Jews for what they were and summoned men to fight against them and who, God's truth! was greatest not as a sufferer but as a fighter. In boundless love as a Christian and as a man I read through the passage which tells us how the Lord at last rose in His might and seized the scourge to drive out of the Temple the brood of vipers and adders. How terrific was His fight for the world against the Jewish poison. To-day, after two thousand years, with deepest emotion I recognize more profoundly than ever before the fact that it was for this that He had to shed His blood upon the Cross. As a Christian I have no duty to allow myself to be cheated, but I have the duty to be a fighter for truth and justice... And if there is anything which could demonstrate that we are acting rightly it is the distress that daily grows. For as a Christian I have also a duty to my own people."

-Adolf Hitler, in a speech on 12 April 1922 [baynes]

For Jesus himself testified , that a prophet hath no honour in his own country.

-John 4:44

And Hitler wrote:

"...that is why the prophet seldom has any honor in his own country."

-Adolf Hitler (Mein Kampf)

Genesis Chapter 3 speaks of the expulsion from paradise and Hitler takes notice of this:

"...the fall of man in paradise has always been followed by his expulsion."

-Adolf Hitler (Mein Kampf)

These are just a few examples of evidence that Hitler did read the bible, and used it to justify his actions. If you read the article through and through (which I am not saying you haven't), it is quite interesting.

I did not say those were not out-of-context, just that it was you who claimed that, not me(which doesn't really serve a purpose, but oh well).

[Darkrul3r]

Did you know hitler was half jewish? :O dont know if thats got to do with anything about his beliefs

[sneezer3]

These are just a few examples of evidence that Hitler did read the bible, and used it to justify his actions. If you read the article through and through (which I am not saying you haven't), it is quite interesting.

Oh come'on, those quotes are obviously out of context. i'm not going to go over everone, that would be kind of useless. Hitler believed the Germans was a Superior race to the jews. I think its a little futile to argue on these grounds. as it don't matter if you win or lose.

Just take for example

Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?

-Matthew 23:33

Hitler took Jesus to heart when he said:

"My feelings as a Christian points me to my Lord and Savior as a fighter. It points me to the man who once in loneliness, surrounded by a few followers, recognized these Jews for what they were and summoned men to fight against them and who, God's truth! was greatest not as a sufferer but as a fighter. In boundless love as a Christian and as a man I read through the passage which tells us how the Lord at last rose in His might and seized the scourge to drive out of the Temple the brood of vipers and adders. How terrific was His fight for the world against the Jewish poison. To-day, after two thousand years, with deepest emotion I recognize more profoundly than ever before the fact that it was for this that He had to shed His blood upon the Cross. As a Christian I have no duty to allow myself to be cheated, but I have the duty to be a fighter for truth and justice... And if there is anything which could demonstrate that we are acting rightly it is the distress that daily grows. For as a Christian I have also a duty to my own people."

Matthew 23:25

Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye make clean the outside of the cup and of the platter, but within they are full of extortion and excess.

Matthew 23:26

[Thou] blind Pharisee, cleanse first that [which is] within the cup and platter, that the outside of them may be clean also.

Matthew 23:27

Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye are like unto whited sepulchres, which indeed appear beautiful outward, but are within full of dead [men's] bones, and of all uncleanness.

Matthew 23:28

Even so ye also outwardly appear righteous unto men, but within ye are full of hypocrisy and iniquity.

Matthew 23:29

Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! because ye build the tombs of the prophets, and garnish the sepulchres of the righteous,

Matthew 23:30

And say, If we had been in the days of our fathers, we would not have been partakers with them in the blood of the prophets.

Matthew 23:31

Wherefore ye be witnesses unto yourselves, that ye are the children of them which killed the prophets.

Matthew 23:32

Fill ye up then the measure of your fathers.

Matthew 23:33

[Ye] serpents, [ye] generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?

Jesus was attacking the Religious leaders of the day. The "Jewish poison" part that guy never read Genesis chapter 12(or he is ignorent.

[Acriku]

Sneezer if you read any of the posts above, you wouldn't have had to post that...

[Caid Ivik]

Did you know hitler was half jewish? :O dont know if thats got to do with anything about his beliefs

Marx was a Jew as a clone, but as he lost his believe he started to hate Jews even more intensively than other people. This is very often thing, when convertits take lead of antisemitism. Fourth chapter of Paul Johnson's History of the Israeli Nation takes a look into it.

[Edric O]

Marx was a Jew as a clone

Ummmm... I bet the Raelians won't be very happy when they hear that. :D

Anyway, on a serious note...

I think Gob's argument sums up everything I have to say on the issue. I only have a few additions to make:

First of all, Acriku, keep in mind that the person we're talking about used lies and propaganda every single day. Trying to "hijack" religion to his own purposes was an obvious thing to do. Also, note that all the Hitler quotes in support of Christianity are from public speeches or from Mein Kampf, while the ones in which he expressed his hatred for Christianity are from private talks. Now what does that suggest to you?

Second, your source is extremely biased, and that's just a mild way to put it. Let me give you an example:

Not only were Hitler's atrocities consistent with God and Jesus' actions in the Bible, [...]

Funny, I don't remember Jesus being a social darwinist, or advocating the domination of the strong over the weak, or killing people, or being an anti-semite... (especially seeing how Jesus was a jew himself, you know...) ::)

[SurlyPIG]

Trying to "hijack" religion to his own purposes was an obvious thing to do. Also, note that all the Hitler quotes in support of Christianity are from public speeches or from Mein Kampf, while the ones in which he expressed his hatred for Christianity are from private talks. Now what does that suggest to you?

That seems reasonable. He tapped in to a readilly available resource of manipulation; religion. An accessable means of controlling people. He contorted it fit his purposes as others do.

[TMA_1]

hmmm, I have been mistaken this whole time. Jesus is exactly like hitler. They even say the same things!

If a man asks for your cloak, give him your garments as well

Love thy neighbor as you love yourself

Do unto others as they would do unto you

and many other things said by jesus

here are many other bible scriptures

they who curse the jew will be cursed, they who bless the jew will be blessed

There will be antichrists near the end days

If hitler was like chirst, why is he stated as an anti christ?

Render unto caesar what is caesar's and render unto God what is God's

so you see, christianity shouldnt even be comingled with politics, and hitler never seemed to point out all of these passages

Whats best, most of the supposed quotes made by hitler were of old testament portions. This had to do with the jewish nation and only the jewish nation. People try to make parallels but you cant, because the old testament is mostly just a historical outline of the creation and the israeli nation. The points made about the far future have nothing at all to do with wha little hitler has quoted. They partain to the "year of the lord" or "the kingdom of heaven". This is talking about the millenium of christ, nothing to do with church age stuff.

acriku, you state that what you are posting is by no means a personal assult or is not at all what I think it is, then you state exactly what I am attacking against! silly boy, read the bible first, and then I might respect your opinions. And even if this guy your quoting did, he obviously never intended to have an open mind.

It would be like me reading the Bhagavad Gita, of course I wouldnt believe it and I would also pick out all sorts of problems with it. That is because I am in a biased position, just like this guy is. You are too man, you dont seem to get it because all you post in return to my arguments comments like this

non-sequiter, (whats that word mean... *acriku scratches head*)

Oh I love your personal attacks tma. (You then forget to respond to any information I have given)

There is absolutely no information here that you gave. (Yeah, I just typed all of this for your enjoyment ::) )

~~~~~~

geesh acriku, eventually all these nice people here on fed2k are going to get tired of your attacks. They may be fun for a while, but then they just get annoying. Not in the good way of trying to open new doors to us with your opinion, but just because you talk too much about this stuff and its kinda dumb.

[Caid Ivik]

With that clone I ment he was genetically 100% Jew, EdricO. But only genetically ;)

"Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called the children of God."

- Mt 5,9

Beside EdriCo would be able to find use for this quote elsewhere, it is strictly showing Hitler was on the other side of Jesus' preaching, especially if we believe Jesus was the Son of God...

[Edric O]

There is no such thing as being a Jew "genetically", any more than you can genetically be an American or a Slovak (if you're talking about nationality) or a Christian (if you're talking about religion).

Neither nationality nor religious affiliation has anything to do with genetics. The only ones who thought there was a link between them were Hitler and the Nazis.

Edit: Btw, Caid, that quote is one of my favourite Bible verses. Bushy Boy should read it... well, assuming he can read. ;)

[Caid Ivik]

Nationality is something like an abstract, spiritual genetics, without real, provable base. Like if your parents were both teachers, you are from considered as children of teacher family. Your nationality is usually a legacy from parents, however, it is true, that this you can change. Marx was from jewish family, altough not very orthodox in judaism.

[Egeides]

I just thought I could contribute to this discussion by bringing a recent article from the Atlantic Monthly that is directly on this subject:

http://www.theatlantic.com/issues/2003/05/ryback.htm

[Gobalopper]

Nice link Egeides, a long read, but definitely worth it. Here are some quotes I found interesting:

Given Hitler's legendary disdain for organized religion in general and Christianity in particular...

A survey of all the evidence forces us to conclude that Hitler believes himself destined to become an Immortal Hitler, chosen by God to be the New Deliverer of Germany and the Founder of a new social order for the world. He firmly believes this and is certain that in spite of all the trials and tribulations through which he must pass he will finally attain that goal. The one condition is that he follow the dictates of the inner voice that have guided and protected him in the past.

Kershaw writes in The Hitler Myth (1987). But believing in a messianic myth is not the same as believing in God. When I asked Kershaw in 2001 whether he thought Hitler actually believed in divine providence, he dismissed the notion. "I don't think that he had any real belief in a deity of any sort, only in himself as a 'man of destiny' who would bring about Germany's 'salvation,'" he declared. Gerhard Weinberg, who helped sort through the Hitler Library back in the 1950s, likewise dismisses the notion of Hitler as a religious believer, insisting that he was driven by the twin passions of Blut und Boden

[zamboe]

I just thought I could contribute to this discussion by bringing a recent article from the Atlantic Monthly that is directly on this subject:

http://www.theatlantic.com/issues/2003/05/ryback.htm

I read it, and found interesting...

Few people could call Hitler "Freund," and fewer still "lieber Freund." For Hitler, Eckart was both friend and family, a mentor and a father figure. When the two men first met, late in 1919, Hitler was a thirty-year-old political upstart a little more than a year out of the trenches, without a penny to his name. Eckart was a fifty-one-year-old playwright with a runaway hit (his adaptation of Peer Gynt), a paintbrush moustache, a morphine addiction, and a legendary hatred of Jews; one Munich newspaper described him as a "raging anti-Semite" who would "ideally like to consume a half dozen Jews daily with his sauerkraut." After working with Hitler at an early Nazi Party event, Eckart began grooming him for political life. He bought Hitler his first trench coat, gave him instruction in public speaking, and introduced him to members of Munich society, often with the icebreaker "This is the man who will one day liberate Germany." Hitler once called Eckart the "polar star" of the Nazi movement, and dedicated the first volume of Mein Kampf to him. "Follow Hitler!" Eckart allegedly exhorted on his deathbed, in 1923. "He will dance, but the music to which he dances was composed by me."

Interesting also that Nietzche and his tendency are not mentioned, perhaps that is in the rest of this 90% book collection.

[sneezer3]

With that clone I ment he was genetically 100% Jew, EdricO. But only genetically ;)

"Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called the children of God."

- Mt 5,9

Beside EdriCo would be able to find use for this quote elsewhere, it is strictly showing Hitler was on the other side of Jesus' preaching, especially if we believe Jesus was the Son of God...

Edit: Btw, Caid, that quote is one of my favourite Bible verses. Bushy Boy should read it... well, assuming he can read. ;)

aren't you forgeting Ecclesiastes 3:8?

anyway. The verse i just gave wouldn't apply to hitler because conditions is named for war in the Old Testament.

[Acriku]

Ignoring TMA's post, everyone else looks good...

First of all, Acriku, keep in mind that the person we're talking about used lies and propaganda every single day. Trying to "hijack" religion to his own purposes was an obvious thing to do. Also, note that all the Hitler quotes in support of Christianity are from public speeches or from Mein Kampf, while the ones in which he expressed his hatred for Christianity are from private talks. Now what does that suggest to you?

One thing you fail to mention is that Hitler was religious before he ever took up on politics. Also, some of the quotes supporting christianity (which you can read from my first link) were in his private notes, not in public speeches. And what private talks express his hatred for christianity, and just how private were they if we know about them?

Second, your source is extremely biased, and that's just a mild way to put it. Let me give you an example:

Some parts were, which was obvious to predict - coming from nobeliefs.com - but that doesn't say much about the actual information.

Funny, I don't remember Jesus being a social darwinist, or advocating the domination of the strong over the weak, or killing people, or being an anti-semite... (especially seeing how Jesus was a jew himself, you know

Obviously the author isn't relating Hitler's actions with Jesus himself, but with what Jesus did/said. And, remember, Hitler killed the jews because he was trying to make it a better world, and in the name of his and your god.

Nice link Egeides, a long read, but definitely worth it. Here are some quotes I found interesting:

Quote:

Given Hitler's legendary disdain for organized religion in general and Christianity in particular...

Gob, you don't find it interesting that Hitler let the Protestant and Catholic churches stay up, but only burned down the synagogues?

Caid -

Beside EdriCo would be able to find use for this quote elsewhere, it is strictly showing Hitler was on the other side of Jesus' preaching, especially if we believe Jesus was the Son of God...

Finding a quote (out of context! ...Just kidding) that goes against Hitler's actions does not take away the other quotes that comply with his actions.

[Gobalopper]

Gob, you don't find it interesting that Hitler let the Protestant and Catholic churches stay up, but only burned down the synagogues?

He only needed one scapegoat.

[Acriku]

What do you mean? That he kept them up so he can continue his facade of beliefs?

[Gobalopper]

I don't know the exact reasons but it would make sense to not kill off all religions. You can't stay in power if you go against every group. If you read that article it mentions that Hitler was more interested in the power people like Jesus had then the teachings found in the Bible.

[Acriku]

It would also make sense to keep up churches of the belief you had, but it's uncertain exactly.

And I don't have all the time in the world to read every article, so it may take a while before I can actually read it (not to mention my AP test tomorrow morning).

[Gobalopper]

And kill off the Jews, whose teachings are very close to Christianity? Why would Hitler say he hated Christianity if that was his religion of choice. Both publically and privately, it doesn't make any sense Acriku.

[Acriku]

Again, please tell me where 'privately' he talked about christianity and his hatred of it. (Shudders at the construction of the preceding sentence).

Also, there were reasons to hate the Jews. Maybe he didn't hate the jews at all, but again there were reasons to 'hate' the Jews. He needed financial gains to fund his war, and so the Jews come in and give up all they have. Their gold is melted down, their purses and wallets emptied. Their labor with no payment, etc. Also, he blamed them on the financial crisis Germany was in. His 'hatred' doesn't have to have religious ties.

[Gobalopper]

Just read the quotes I posted.

For all the vitriol Hitler spewed upon Judaism, he came to hold Christianity in equal disdain. "Christianity is the worst thing that ever happened to mankind," he declared during an after-dinner rant in July of 1941. "Bolshevism is the illegitimate child of Christianity. Both are an outgrowth of the Jew."

or

But Hitler believed that the mortal and the divine were one and the same: that the God he was seeking was in fact himself.

or his interest in the occult. Hitler may have read the Bible but his actions certainly show that he didn't follow the teachings found in it.

[Acriku]

I would ask for the sources of that 'rant' but he posts no sources, and I couldn't find the quote "Christianity is the worst thing that ever happened to mankind" anywhere on google.

[Gobalopper]

http://homepages.paradise.net.nz/mischedj/ca_hitler.html

http://kevin.davnet.org/hitler.html