A man without religion

[Acriku]

I was just thinking. I don't need religion to keep my morals. You guys do. I don't need a god to tell me what to do or what not to do. I have no fear of hell or urge for heaven. So why do I need to follow any morals that god gave us? Sneezer and caid, you guys have asked me this. Well, truth is that I don't. I don't need to stop from raping every hot girl I see. No need to not kill anyone that I hate. That I loathe. That I am jealous of. Nothing can stop me from coming to your house and stabbing your eyes out. I don't have a god to answer to, even though I will answer to him in the end, I have unleashed myself from god and towards human cruelty, human evil, and human sin. And yet, I still stay away from human cruelty, human evil, and human sin. You have a god, to fear and embrace, you have the heavens to urge for, and a hell to fear of. I don't. Dropping the rope of theism and falling into the world of sin without punishment, I am not harmed. I am not scarred. Realizing the rope leads to nowhere, I have nothing to stop me - now living in the world of sin without punishment - and yet I do not flourish in it.

There is no law against having sex with my girlfriend, I can do it right now in the garage. Right now, take off my clothes and just do it. But I don't. I don't have a heaven or hell dangling above me to check myself, I have myself only.

There is little to no chance of me getting caught, if I don't return a wallet of cash to the owner. And yet, I return it with a smile, with no bills missing.

You have hell to fear, I have nothing to fear. Who is stronger - One who does or does not do things based on what gets them into heaven or hell, or what someone else with immense power tells them; or one who does or does not do things without any of that? You decide.

[DjCiD]

Its not about doing things to get you into heaven or keep you from going to hell. It about giving the glory of the things you have done to God. It is in his name I do things, so that others may see. To God be the glory, in Jesus name. But thats just my 2 cents

[TMA_1]

you have said this before acriku.lol

[Egeides]

I have nothing to fear. No one to follow. I chose the path I wish. But I believe the best path is morality and I believe morality emanates from God since He (he, as you wish) is perfect. I simply want to be moral, for the same reasons as you Acriku. Except that on top of this, there is God.

We can of course expand on the links between morality and God, but I think I answered the question here.

[Acriku]

What are my reasons for morality?

[DjCiD]

If you lived in Texas or are in the military, it would be not to go to jail. They both consider Sodomy as illegal...

[Acriku]

Sodomy? When did that come up? (I hope you don't think my supposed girlfriend is a beast ;D)

[TMA_1]

whoa, notice that when acriku became a jerk, he finally got a girl? odd connections.lol Shallowness breeds this sort of thing.

[Acriku]

Actually I don't have a girl, it was a scenario, and notice I said "supposed" :) Nice try, though. Atleast you are reading my posts (unlike other people that don't seem to). Oh, and I am not a jerk, you just got your feelings hurt :'(

[TMA_1]

yup, and I apologized and you still havent accepted it. I wasent the one that started the ball rolling for you becoming an ass. you did that a while ago.lol stupid posts man.

[Zopwx2]

RELIGION IS ALL A BIG CONCPIRACY TO EXPLOIT PEOPLES FEAR OF DEATH AND THEIR NEED FOR MEANING IN ORDER TO GAIN POWER OVER THEM AND PREVENT THEM FROM FALLING INTO CHAOS WHEN THEY REALIZE THERE IS NO HIGHER POWER!

[Zopwx2]

Sorry I was just trying to make some people mad. I dont care what anyone believes and neither should they. If god is so powerful he doesn't need your help, he did after all create the universe. right? As long as everyone follows the same basic moral limits (good deeds, good words) i dont care if they have sex with a vacuum cleaner and worship the 73 gods of almighty magic marker and thin that all people from finland should burn. As long as they do it in their own homes and try not to encite violence in other people. some neo nazi aryan groups do that. They never break the law, but encourage other people to take their anger out on other people.

[SurlyPIG]

Ease off the capitals dude. What you said is not far from my opinion, though...

[Chani]

i think its pretty harsh to imply that religious people arent moral enough within themselves. there is nothing to say that without god people wouldnt make the right decision.

personally i behave pretty well.. i am a moral and upstanding person, but i dont do it for any god, or gods that are up there. i do, however, believe they are up there. i do believe god is there for me. but i dont act in cetain ways just for god.

if i am right and god is there for me, then he would forgive me at the end. and if i'm gonna get forgiven anyway then thats an open door to be an awful person. but i dont.

morality is something *inside* an individual. god isnt a reason to be moral, or it isnt true morality. so someone wants to rape a girl but doesnt, because they dont want to upset god.. obviously its great that the girl isnt raped. but it doesnt make that person good in gods eyes, because god would *know* that person was intrinsically bad.

so yeah..i think morality is a personal thing whether you believe in nothing, god, allah, brahman.... etc whatever.

your faith will not decide your personal morality.

[Acriku]

I am not saying everyone who is religious cannot be moral without it, in fact I know people can be moral without religion, and I hope it comes to actuality soon worldwide. But, even the religious people claim that without religion, morality doesn't exist, even though they are wrong they do bring up my point.

However, I do strongly believe that faith determines certain morals one holds. A jewish person cannot eat pork, would they have that moral without their belief? A catholic cannot masturbate at all, it is sin and evil, would they have that moral without their belief?

[Edric O]

The problem, Acriku, is that by your own view on things, morals are meaningless. You could be the most kind, loving, compassionate and overall saintly person on the entire Earth - but if there are no absolute moral values, you are still no better or worse than Hitler.

You claim that you are stronger than us because you follow a set of morals without a higher power to give them to you. Yet those are your OWN, PERSONAL morals. The fact that some of them happen to be the same as ours is just a coincidence. Adolf Hitler also followed his OWN, PERSONAL morals very strictly.

I can say that you are good and Hitler was evil. But you cannot say that, because you don't believe in absolutes.

[Warlord Ripskar]

Morals are a fascet of power. It is the imposition of a set of rules and regulations, (which is what morals are) by the powerful that ensures the powerful retain their power and that civilisation does not descend into anarchy. The enforcement of these regulations can only be conducted by the powerful over the population with the threat of violence or reprisals.

Thus those who do not hold power are not in a position to impose regulations upon the population.

The reward for submiting to the regulations is a peaceful existance.

Religeous morals follow this pattern exactly and most go so far as to claim a poerful 'source' for the rules.

[Acriku]

Edric - morals are meaningless on the outside. But they keep (or rather, ethics do) societies together and people from raping everybody else (for example).

I claim I am stronger because you have to have a god to enforce your morals, I don't. But I hope it isn't true, for the sake of humanity (some I know I can't count on, though). Good and evil do not exist, they are too subjective.

[ordos45]

Did I have my own set of morals before becoming Christian and believing in God, of course. You seem to think that no one will agree to the fact you can have morality without religion, religion just supplements them.

The way I see religions is this. All have a common theme. A closer relationship with the divine. Be it that closer relationship with God or Gods or Goddesses or Oversoul, or whatever one believes in.

Even Atheism has this in a sense. After all, you strive to understand the world, and the universe, back it up with facts. You seek a better understanding of the universe, just as those whose religions you assault are, you are just choosing a different method.

[Acriku]

I believe most assuredly that morals come from human psychological development, but to enforce them is another matter. And how does religion seek a better understanding of the universe when it gives all the answers in a book called the bible? Refer to my signature :)

[Edric O]

Everyone follows some sort of morals, Acriku. Even if they consist only of "do whatever you want", they are still that person's OWN, PERSONAL moral values. Some of your particular moral values happen to coincide with the Christian ones. But the fact that you follow them doesn't make you any stronger than someone who only follows the rule "do whatever you want" - you just happen to have set other rules for yourself.

Basically, there is no such thing as "strength" in following rules that YOU set for yourself! You can only show strength or weakness in following rules that are set by someone else.

[ordos45]

I believe most assuredly that morals come from human psychological development, but to enforce them is another matter. And how does religion seek a better understanding of the universe when it gives all the answers in a book called the bible? Refer to my signature :)

Bible? You only are pointing to the religion of Christianity. And one thing, I forget which verse, is to never stop questioning. Jesus even encouraged the disciple who doubted he rose again to feel the wounds, to question.

What of other holy books? Talmud, Torah, Hadith, Quran, etc.

As I said, religion supplements, helps increase our morality by setting higher standers than we may set for ourselves in some cases.

[Acriku]

There is, if you need an outside force to enforce them so you don't do them. Just today I heard a girl saying no to the you-know-what to her boyfriend, and her only reason was that god wouldn't like it. I imagine she'd be high-tailing it to the bedroom without god.

Sorry Ordos, meant to change that but forgot. And I hope the christians follow Jesus' words of always questioning, because only then do you find the real answers.

The Torah gives us all the answers, as well. Basically, any book that tells how we are here, how we came to be, etc, is a book that gives us answers that we must be satisfied with.

[ordos45]

Not necessarily, you yourself have pointed out on several occasions that people use God as an excuse on why they will or won't do something.

[Acriku]

I did? Hmm, memory must be slipping. Well, using god as an excuse (which I think was what edric said, not me) is only known to the person who is doing it, so it's impossible to know.