Zensunni to Tleilax

[TMA_1]

I take no credit for this idea, I heard it from the DE. it makes a lot of sense though. The Tleilaxu are extremely religious and decend from a new form of islam, sufism, and zen buddhism. They seem to have been cast down all their lives and found a place where they could call home. They would have traveled from planet to planet and picked up technologies as they went along. I think that maybe the Tleilaxu are an offshoot of this wondering group of religious people.

[Emperor Harkonnen]

what are you saying that they are from the same place as the fremen?

[TMA_1]

that they were once followers of the zensunni tribes. that they are related to the fremen. They slowly mutated and altered their race in order to benefit themselvs and their working environment.

[Emperor Harkonnen]

So the tleilaxu made themselves look like ugly dwarves?

[Colonel_Worf]

I don't know about that... we would have to go way before TBJ when they were known as Tlulaxa.

[TMA_1]

totally disagree with the prequels on past history. so by defult this idea is probably "wrong", but I think it fits into the whole scheme of things a lot better than the prequel's ideas do.

[Colonel_Worf]

OK. You just go with speculation then.

[Digital Guerrilla]

Isn't there something about this in Hertics or Chapter House I can not remember which novel it is but I think a Bene Gesserit sister speaks about the Tleilaxian in this manner or something identical.

[WhiteShadow]

Well, without no speculation, read the following passage from "Heretics of Dune":

[hide]

Conversation beetween Taraza, a Bene Gesserit, and Tylwyth Waff, a Tleilaxu (page 194 of my New English Library papercover book.

"God preserve us all! Is Waff a secret Zensunni?

No Matter the dangers, this had to be explored. Odrade must be armed with every possible advantage on Rakis.

'Perhaps we have done all we can for now', Taraza said. 'There is time to complere our bargain. God alone in His inifinite mercy has given us infinite universes where anything may happen'.

Waff clapped his hands once without thinking. 'The gift of suprprises is the greatest gift of them all!' he said.

Not just Zensunni, Taraza thought. Sufi alfo. Sufi! She began to readjust her perspective on the Tleilaxu. How long have they been holding this close to their breasts?

[/hide]

Perhaps this can help your conversation ;D

[TMA_1]

wow thanks man, that helps a hell of a lot. :)

[Inoculator9]

I have to agree with you TMA. The Zensunni broke off a while before the BJ wihtout a doubt, and I'm sure that several sects of their beliefs evolved as they progressed.

[Mahdi]

I always thoght that the tlielaxu incorporated the zunsunni philosophy into there society, and were not descendant of the tlielaxu, because for the first four novels at least they seemed fairly athiestic, then suddenly in the last two they had there own complicated religion which merged Maud'dib's Golden Elixir, Leto's Godhood, the zensunni, etc.

It always seemed to me that upon the fall of the God-Emperor, the Tlielaxu converted en masse to religion.

But, there is no evidence to support it, other than the apparent athiesm expressed by Scytale and the tlielaxu actions in GEOD.

You could be right TMA, I don't know of anything that says you are wrong and I am right, but it doesn't feel right to me.

[TMA_1]

hmm know what you mean man. I suggest always going with your gut feeling on these kinds of situations. you probably already know that.lol just was trying to help ya out. :) I personally think that they aredecended though.

[Vanguard3000]

Blah blah blah (see last post by Mahdi)

The Tleilaxu were very secretive in their technological exploits. In Heretics/Chapterhouse, we see they are similarly secretive about their religion. After reading Heretics and Chapterhouse, I simiply assumed that Scytale and Bijaz didn't mention their religion because:

A) It was no concern of the powindah.

B) They kept their religion a secret until after Leto II's death.

Of course, the most likely thing is that Herbert didn't decide to give too much substance to the Tleilaxu until they became major players in the later novels. In my opinion, the outward zeal of the Tleilaxu in the prequels was another thing that gave away too much.

[cobrajc]

hmmm...if the tlieaxu came from the zennsuni...than is it possible that they could possibly be like the fremen? at least in the warrior aspect?

[Andrew]

I beleive the warrior aspect of fremen is because of the environment and the way they were treated.

[Inoculator9]

Correct. Their warrior nature evolved after they migrated from their scattered places in the galaxy to Arrakis. I suspect they will face some sort of problem during the "Machine Crusade," and "The Battle of Corrin."