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Why should i believe in God?


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Oh, pretty-pretty! ;D

But, um, which part of HYPOTHETICAL do you not understand?

Consider also that the term "self-awareness" as we know it would be all-too crude and basic to encapsulate fully the awareness such a being might have. It very well could have an internal awareness of what its "cells" were up to. The Bene Gesserit did. Have you ever read this book Dune?

Um, again, you do realize that <i>Dune</i> is fiction, yes? That genetic "Other Memory" and cellular awareness and psychokinesthetic motes are but lovely <b>fictions</b>? :)

That's it, that's ALL you have? Wild speculation about the "possible" properties and organization and function of <b>hypotheticals</b>? How disappointing. I was hoping for something with a bit more meat, some actual muscle, not just a pretty birdsong & dance.

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Okay, I totally see what Edric is getting at. Therefore, I'm going to attempt something new. Chigger, you're obviously intelligent, to an extent. You know some things, but not a lot, and your ignorance is highly frustrating to those of us with advanced degrees. At the same time, I don't think you really care about the debate (given the extent to which Edric, Hwi, Dante and I actually diverge on important points of fact and theory, and given your responses thereto), rather, you care only about how much you can frustrate--mainly with ignorance, rarely with eloquence--those of us who take it seriously. So! Here's my idea: a homework assignment. You are going to read something by A. J. Ayer. I won't tell you what, because that's part of the assignment. Suffice to say, something he once said or wrote (I don't know!) is relevant to the discussion we're having here. And if you can internalize it and understand it--regardless of whether or not you agree with it in its entirety--and then report to me, honestly, what his point was, then I will entertain you in future discussions. If not... well, then I won't waste my time railing against Fed2k's anti-religious version of an evangelical fundamentalist with a computer. Oh, which reminds me, this is for your own good, too--because that's exactly what you currently are.

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Oh, you poor DEAR! ... You've defaulted into schoolmarm mode! And even pulled out yer papers and flogged them about?! Heavens! I do so hope my silliness hasn't exacerbated your daily migraine!  :'(

Ah, but a quick prayer and you'll be right as rain again, right? Nothing beats The Riz! ;D

<img src="http://www.hairyticksofdune.net/extimgs/rizgotchacovered2.jpg" />

Points of fact and theory, is it? You must be referring to something hidden in Hwi jNoree's QUOTE QUOTE QUOTE QUOTE ONWARD CHRISTIAN STOLDIERS, because I've not seen much from you besides angels and cosmic meatballs. Or, more likely, you mean something in Dante's posts. Yes?

There's no "debate" here to care about. You all believe simply because you want to believe. You see the "evidence" you want to see, and no amount of "debate" is going to change that. None of your lovely speculative warbling is going to sway anyone (And, seriously, does that bile-soaked verbiage thing work for you on the teens and 20-somethings around here? Anywhere?), and Dante's counters are in vain because Hweeeee has climbed onto the IDiocy roller coaster and is hanging on for dear life. (Not sure where Little Red Ed has gotten to the last few days. Maybe he's consulting his Magical Sand Grains to see if they will improbabilistically spell out SUPERCILIOUS at last?)

Ah me, this has been fun, but it's time to return to hating on (Don't you just hate that expression?) McDune and the idiots what love it. But rest assured, dear Wolf, you will entertain me in future discussions whether you mean to or not. I'll be watching! ;) XXX

(Oh, almost forgot: The only thing Ayer ever said that I found even remotely interesting was "You are all mad!" :D )

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At first I was going to respond to your latest "silliness," as you call it, by saying, simply, that if you're at all as intelligent as you seem to be, you would realize that everything you've said applies pretty equally to you. Ayer's point was that any metaphysical conversation was meaningless--the Gods and the no-Gods are making essentially the same statements in rational terms. Believing, as you say, simply because you want to believe.

But then I decided to do some research on my enemy: you're a 50 year old high school English teacher in Japan. Really? Not trying to insult you here at all, man, but no joke, I honestly assumed from the way you wrote that you were no older than 16, confused, and really mad at his father. But you're a grown-ass man and you have nothing better to do but to bully "teens and 20-somethings" (again, your words) that you've never met and never will meet on an online forum with "silliness" and more smileys than a schoolgirl with a Hello Kitty lunchbox? Honestly, dude, how empty and meaningless is your life that this is what you do with yourself? We're young and stupid, but at least we have that excuse. You? No wonder you don't believe in God. If I were you, I wouldn't. I'm really sorry.

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*returns to thread*

Wow, this became an Evolution debate. Very well thought out when compared to my traditional forum standards (NationStates), where the flames/trolls present in Youtube pale in comparison. Not very surprising.

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Regarding evolution. You know, no one ever said [okay, this isn't true, but the assertion is unsupportable in either case, so I'm making it for myself, now] that evolution couldn't be God's tool for creation. For my part, I do not view the subjects of evolution-as-valid-theory and the-existence-of-God as being related. The merits of either can be debated separately, and regardless of the outcome, it has no bearing on the outcome of the other topic whatsoever.
If people want to believe that there is a guiding hand behind scientifically proven processes and events such as evolution and quantum mechanics, I don't have a problem with that. They're making a claim that they cannot prove and I cannot disprove, so the end result is null. The 'why' of the matter isn't as important as the 'how.' I don't share their belief, but I'll still respect it as a reasonable compromise.

As for the analogy (yes, I was rather pleased with how it came out), you know as well as I do that it wasn't intended as a stand-alone argument. Of course I could go into detail regarding historical precedent or the futility of banging rocks together and the metaphorical implications of same, but a joke's never funny when you have to explain it.

SandChigger, if you're watching, while I do think you have points nestled somewhere in your posts, they're surrounded by the kind of baiting annoyances that I used to find quite irritating when delivered by... previous occupants of this forum. Suffice to say that - and I hope you understand that as a fellow atheist I don't seek to undermine your point of view - Edric and Wolf do have a point: your underlying ideas may or may not have merit, but they are largely obscured by a frankly baffling degree of condescension. If you want to have a reasoned debate, treat your opponent with respect. This may seem odd coming from me, but the thing is, I generally slide into direct insults when reasoned debate is failing anyway. And there is something nicely refreshing about being direct, rather than passive aggressive pretention.

Wolf: I always assumed that teaching children was so stressful that he needed to let off steam.

Hwi: Your last offering could be answered by copying and pasting my HANDY DANDY diagram for a third time. You may post further 'rebuttals' if you wish - they will be ignored. I'm frankly bored of repeating myself and can derive only so much amusement from your galactic ignorance of the subject. Congratulations: you have been admitted to the select group of people whose opinions are no longer worth considering or even acknowledging. Good day.

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