Mino Hoard

[Navaros]

Answer is definitely Worms.

If that is not possible, you could eventually kill the Kinjal with Warriors but you're gonna be losing a TON of Warriors before you get that done.

If Worms are not possible then there are some other ways to do it but it depends where on the map the formation is/how it is setup.

oh yes, and using scouts to draw fire is one of the dumbest things i've ever heard because it never works to good effect. that's just a silly idea floating around that has no real gameplay value.

[DukeLeto]

Answer is definitely Worms.

Remember, worms have infantry armor; if he brings along a sniper or two, your worms are dead.

[slaphapy]

If that is not possible, you could eventually kill the Kinjal with Warriors but you're gonna be losing a TON of Warriors before you get that done.

oh yes, and using scouts to draw fire is one of the dumbest things i've ever heard because it never works to good effect. that's just a silly idea floating around that has no real gameplay value.

i don't know why you would loose a "TON" of warriors... if you use your warriers wisely then you should be able to get quite a few of them.

let me explain: ok so there are 15 kindjal...

you take two warriers... you put them both far apart and order them to attack 2 different kindjal... and the second they fire you pull them back asap... most likely the minos will not shoot, unless they are in a pretty close range... even if the minos shoot, the chances are your fremen will only be about half way dead leaving them to shoot and kill 2 or even 4 more kindjal.

this means that it does not require using as many fremen warriors as some may think... the key is use them wisely

and why is using scouts to draw fire one of the dumbest things you have heard??? i have seen many good players do it.... i guess if you use scouts on something like a mongoose to draw fire then that is pointless... pretty much the only unit that players draw fire from is the minotaur, mostly because if you get it to spend one round of shots then it gives a good 20 seconds or so (probably less) for you to (if using ordos) possibly send in a deviator and get one of those minos.

[Navaros]

try using your Warriors wisely vs. my Mino wall, and you'd find that my Minos are much "wiser" than your Warriors and most if not all of your Warriors are gonna die after one attack on my Kinjal. a few might escape with minimal health, but not many. the wise Minos are gonna be benefitting alot more from the chevrons you so generously offered than your army will from your Warriors sacrifice.

with scouts, same idea. sure you might distract two or three Minos with them which may help a bit in the early game. but later on when there are several Minos, scouts won't really help you vs. a good Atredies players' Minos. they'll actually help him. free chevrons. gee thanks.

[slaphapy]

apparantly you did not catch what i was saying arohk

but o well... i wasn't saying to use the fremen warriers against the minos they are for use only to take out those pesky kindjal and infantry....

plus it's not really much of a mino wall... if you would perhaps read the first post you will notice there are only 5 minos ... that's not many to manipulate...

after you use my strat (use it before you pick it to pieces,although you do have to know what you are doing) you have to obviously use something else to take out the minos such as... more minos,planes, deviators or you could even use my fremen fedaykin strat where u can take out 2 minos with one hit from 3 fremen ....

please don't go picking apart my strats if you haven't tried them

o and by the way arohk

you can not gain chevron experience from subhouse units ;D dont' mean to be rude, but check your facts before you take apart someones strat

[Navaros]

k i stand corrected about the scouts thing in this particular situation because i neglected to notice we were only talking about 5 Minos

as for the Warrior on Kinjal part: i've defeated people trying that to me a million times. easily. Minos have a lot more range then Fremen so if his Minos are setup right they will be covering his Kinjal with more than enough range to massacre all your Warriors with one salvo burst, 2 at most to finish off the few straggles which barely escape with their lives as soon as they attack a second time.

i've never seen Warriors put a dent in any Kinjal/Mino formations I've ever set up. perhaps you are used to playing people who set up their formations differently than i do and hence that is where the confusion/disagreement lies

as for sub-houses not giving chevrons, i've seen people say that but i am not sure that i believe it. i might test it for my self one day, but i'm inclined to think that they do

[slaphapy]

i did not say that you would be able to take out all the kindjal and infantry with just 2 fremen warriers...

and i know what you mean about people not getting past minos with their warriers to kill the kindjal... i have seen people try it.. but the problem is they dont' controll their units well, they tell their warrier to shoot but they do not move it away, and because the mino continues to fire untill it's rounds are used it will kill a fremen that doesn't move... that's why i said you have to use the strat correctly and move the fremen away...

and as for the chevron experience, trust me... i have taken about 30 gholas and ran them at about 50 snipers and the snipers did not gain any experience, plus most of the people who say that subhouse units dont' give chevron experience are usually mod makers... and they know what they are talking about ;)

[XCH]

i did not say that you would be able to take out all the kindjal and infantry with just 2 fremen warriers...

and i know what you mean about people not getting past minos with their warriers to kill the kindjal... i have seen people try it.. but the problem is they dont' controll their units well, they tell their warrier to shoot but they do not move it away, and because the mino continues to fire untill it's rounds are used it will kill a fremen that doesn't move... that's why i said you have to use the strat correctly and move the fremen away...

and as for the chevron experience, trust me... i have taken about 30 gholas and ran them at about 50 snipers and the snipers did not gain any experience, plus most of the people who say that subhouse units dont' give chevron experience are usually mod makers... and they know what they are talking about ;)

First, what do you mean by gholas? Do you mean Contaiminators?

Second, there was not enough experience to give the snipers an extra level. Each sniper killed less than one "ghola."

[slaphapy]

yes ghola = contaminator sorry

and if you want to you can take 1 sniper and sit 30 contaminators in front of it and let it go at em and that sniper won't gain any experience

[XCH]

yes ghola = contaminator sorry

and if you want to you can take 1 sniper and sit 30 contaminators in front of it and let it go at em and that sniper won't gain any experience

Have you tried that?

[Navaros]

yes ghola = contaminator sorry

and if you want to you can take 1 sniper and sit 30 contaminators in front of it and let it go at em and that sniper won't gain any experience

were these your ally's gholas? 'cause you don't get experience from slaughtering your ally's units so maybe that's why you think sub-house units don't give experience

[slaphapy]

XCH : yes

Arohk: no, they were not my allys units...

it was just a fun screw around comp stomp and an old friend of mine was trying to do it... we unallied but the sniper never leveled

plus try this: take some fremen and just attack a hoard of minos in a game ... no matter how many fremen the minos kill they will not level

[Scy]

yeah slaphapy right!

i try 2flamethrower to kill 20sards and they are didn't get any experience, just 5art_infatry make each flamethrower veterans.

[Exo Etherial]

5 Minos

7 Mongooses

30 Infantry

3 Repairs

15 Kindjal

Hmmmm... Toughie, to me the group is evenly covered on most points of attack. But there is a weakness. Methodical hit-and-run tactics.

I'm going with the House I know best first, Ordos:

Have a group of 5-7 Dust Scouts grouped, and then zip in to pick off Infantry, from a relatively safe distance. Back off when necessary then repeat, to heal and/or wait for the Kinjal to updeploy (to try to kill your MOBILE vehicles) so that I can then kill them off. However Id' also back them up with an attack group (10-14 strong) of Laser Tanks, that I would then strafe and kill any pursuing Mongooses. All the while keeping them safe from the Minotauruses. Once all but the repair vehicles and Minos are left, then comes a bit of nasty playing. Have a single Dust scout rush into the group Repair Vehicles OR if the Minos are "circling the wagon" around the repair vehicles, I'd just send in the laser tanks to bob and weave back and forth, blasting the bijous out of them faster than the Repair vehicles can help the Minos. Total expected Worst Case Losses (WCL): 1400-2800 Solaris in lost vehicles.

If I was Harkonnen I'd attack with a combination of 6 assault tanks, 1 flame tank, 14 Gunships, and 3 Inkvine catapults: Have the Inks pick off infantry and Kinjal from a distance, keep the Flame close to them to take care of incoming infantry. Back up your little 4-unit group as needed. Group your gunships then tell them to pick off each Mino two-to-one. Have the rest pummel the Repair vehicles. However, at the same time have your assault tanks keep the Mongooses busy by having them all target ONE Mongoose at a time, take down as many Mongoose as you can before the Minos kill them. If everything goes wrong this should at LEAST leave the enemy with nothing but a badly damaged Mino, or Mogoose. ReVecs are weak and even a pair gunships can take them all out. Have your Invines come back in and lob black death upon the survivors. WCL: 6900-8700 Solaris in lost vehicles and aircraft

Atriedes are a bit more straightforward. A group of 10-15 Snipers, 16 Onithopters, 2 Sonic tanks, and 3 repair vehicles of your very own. Have the snipers go in, kill infantry and Kinjal, making sure to fade back whenever it looks like the Minos might be within range. Repeat until nothing but the vehicles are left. Group you Ornis then have them perform a series of fly-by strafing runs on the Minos. Tell the Ornis to all target a SINGLE Mino at a time. You might take losses but then when was there ever a battle where you don't? Have your repair vehicles patch up your more seriously damaged Ornis, but keep up the pressure! Remember, they have repair vehicles too. Once all the heavy hitters are taken care of, time to send in the boomers! Your sonic tanks will decimate the equally ranged, though outgunned and armored, Mongooses. If you're smart then you'll know to also give them Repair support. WCL: 6000-7600 Solaris in lost vehicles and aircraft

3 modes of attack, each one involving no subhouses and the tech tree of only one house. What do I win? 8)

[ken124578]

The longest-post that-i-don't-want-to-read-post :P

About #1, that is impossible to do, the mongooses damage/slow down/destroy the lasertanks, together with the minotaurs and kindjal (if deployed) you can't break through with lasertanks and dustscouts alone.

[Exo Etherial]

Sorry... Maybe you're right, I'll have to go perform some tests!

*1 Hour later*

Damnit!

*2 hours*

Damnit times 5!

Okay, uhm... Get back to me?

P.S: I think I'll just shut up for a few days.

[XCH]

Now I have it--use some Fremen to draw the fire of the Minos to the Kindjal, and kill some Kindjal. When most or all of the Kindjal are gone, send in one last Fremen to draw the fire of the Atreides forces. Now, while the units are reloading, you attack with a huge amount of Assault tanks. While they are attacking you can send in other forces that will either attack without any resistance or draw the fire away from the first group.

[Scy]

but where the 7 mangoose? they are have fast and anti-heavy armor missiles!

[XCH]

but where the 7 mangoose? they are have fast and anti-heavy armor missiles!

You attack the Mongoose with the Assault tanks

[ken124578]

Being more efficient with your units will pay off in the future, sacrafising alot of units isn't a very good idea.

[Scy]

You attack the Mongoose with the Assault tanks

i prefer to use fedaykins againts mangoose when the assault tanks attacking the minos.

[ken124578]

My comment: those tactics are wasting valuable money and time, use a catapult to kill the kindjalls, use a scout to get some minotaur fire and hit 'n run with missile tanks untill there are no more mongooses.

After that, you can drop a devastator next to them (and perhaps you get a level 1 devastator)

[XCH]

My comment: those tactics are wasting valuable money and time, use a catapult to kill the kindjalls, use a scout to get some minotaur fire and hit 'n run with missile tanks untill there are no more mongooses.

After that, you can drop a devastator next to them (and perhaps you get a level 1 devastator)

I like this one.

Does anyone have any for Atreides or Ordos?

[XCH]

How would you kill this hoard if you could use Minos?

[ken124578]

attack with minotaurs, after they've fired their ammo, drop some sonic tanks next to the enemy group, then when you think they're going to shoot again pick them up.