Our Friends, the French

[DukeLeto]

Ah, what ho? A topic about the French, you say?

Why yes indeed, it is. And this time it's not just French-bashing. It's facts, and ones that will probably upset a lot of you.

Yesterday it was revealed that the French have been selling weapons to Iraq, up to as recently as Mid-February! This includes things like fighter parts, tank parts, and, well, weapons. (Sorce: CNN, FOX News, The Washington Post, The Orlando Sentinel) Certainly the French wouldn't be against attacking Iraq because they're covering their own butts. ::)

More funsies from our "friends", the French:

Some of you may remember a video tape of a Palestinian man holding his son in the middle of a gunfight between the Israelis and some Palestinians. In this video, the young boy is shot by the Israelis. This tape was broadcast first in France, then world-wide. It is believed to have been part of the cause of the intense suicide bombings in Israel. Well, low and behold, the French now admit it was staged. Never happened, all made up.

Wow, the French are certainly people of moral integrity, aren't they? ::)

[Anathema]

The French government consists of dicks, I never claimed otherwise.

[Dante]

And you claim that any other government is better? PAH!

Politicians are slime and there's nothing particularly slimy about French politicians in comparisson to the rest of them. Just look at Blair and Bush. One would be as slippery as a fish if he wasn't so public and the other's sharing the family neuron with his dad.

You know during World War 2 George Bush's grandfather sold weapons and munutions to the nazis THROUGHOUT the entire war? Even when free Germany consisted of only Berlin he kept pumping in the shells and bullets. So don't criticise the French, please, they are no better, nor worse than the rest of us/them.

[ken124578]

They were allies in WW2 :P

[Dante]

And Japan were allies in WW 1.

[Caid Ivik]

First fighter shot down in Operation Desert Storm was Iraqi Dassault Mirage F.1. Guess who made them. There were about 900 F.1s made, from them about 400 sold to France and second place has Iraq with about 250. Nuclear program in Osirak was stopped by Israelis, with also one dead french technician. Case was strictly condemned by Mitterand, who also pushed whole UN to stay on Saddam's side with this. And his political opponent, Chirac, agreed to withdraw vote of 1241 resolution to send inspectors in 1998. And now, he wants to block other one...

These French are such iraqophils.

[Anathema]

I'll just refer to my sig. The Americans don't have clean hands either.

[DukeLeto]

It seems like all the governments of the world right now are run by *ssholes. ;)

[Caid Ivik]

I'll just refer to my sig. The Americans don't have clean hands either.

But at least they try to wash them by cleaning the mess they've made. What we can't say about defetistic cowardly French.

[Anathema]

That's one mess out of approximately...50? Anyway, it's the result that matters. If the Americans manage to do the war with relatively little dead people at the end and leave it to the UN to set up a new government system I'll admit I was wrong.

[Caid Ivik]

50? That's hyperbolization. I can say that Russia is behind all that thousands of conflicts, because in most of them are used their AK-47 rifles. Also it was in time of the cold war, fightless, but still hard. Won that one, who had more allies. Now, in monopolar world, they are only, who can clean the mess which cold war made. At least only one with such will. It is true, that between Blue Helms are still mostly American soldiers.

[Anathema]

I meant the remaining messy situations. The US messed with the world as much as the SU did. Difference is that the Soviet regime has collapsed.

[Caid Ivik]

Difference is also that in South Korea you can live as you want, and in North you cannot buy even a car. How many NKs connected to internet last year anyway?

[Anathema]

Hmm, I wondered where NK entered the discussion ::)

I think that all powers who sold weapons to Sadam should be condemned for that. I'm consistent.

[Caid Ivik]

I can say that everyone who makes weapons for anybody should be condemned. But there IS now a power, which tries to make an order. We should support this, and I will.

[Edric O]

Okay, so let me get this straight, Caid: The Americans are better than the French because after selling weapons to Iraq, they now want to slaughter a few thousand Iraqis to "clean up" their mess? ::)

[DukeLeto]

Well, IMO, neither one is any better than the other. Like I said:

It seems like all the governments of the world right now are run by *ssholes. ;)

[SurlyPIG]

At the time of the Iraq-Iran war, when the US sided with Iraq, Iraq was a much different place. As was the whole region. As was the world. They do not aid the Iraqis today, and have not done so for over two decades. The only stuff they have of the US' is what was left over, which isn't much compared to what the French were selling to Iraq as little as three weeks ago. THREE WEEKS! Right in the face of all the UN's resolutions. Right in the middle of all the fuss.

You're damn right the French government is worse than others, Dust Scout. Far worse. They have a history of sticking their noses where they don't belong (like the UN-SC for example) and they've caused a lot of trouble over the years, far more than the US has. How in the world such bizzare leaders are elected by France is beyond me.

[Davidu]

Caid, any country has the right to produce weapons. Primary for internal use (army, police, sports, hunting). If some country needs weapons I don't see why can't another country can't sell them weapons?

Before WWII RO bought the CZ-ZB 7.98 caliber rifles from Czechoslovakia.

Was that wrong??

In 1877 the turks had Winchesters on the use in the army...

Now, the Ak-47. There are a variety of sates producing the AK-47 (or modifications). Any of these states could have sold those weapons to Iraq.

I think it is very important for a country to have its own weapons factory, so, in the case of a conflict it can sustain the war from within, not to depend on the foreign shipments that can be attacked or simply stopped on the way.

[DukeLeto]

The US sided with Iraq during its war with Kuwait

Whoa, back it up there a second! We sided with Kuwait as part of the UN Coalitio that drove Saddam OUT of Kuwait. Where on Earth did you find that?

[SurlyPIG]

Whoops! I meant the Iraq-Iran war...I'll fix that.

[Davidu]

MAN!! The US and Iraq against Kuwait??? Now that's a balanced war! ;D ;D

[Caid Ivik]

Yes Davidu, we need to produce weapons for our national security. Cezets were made in Brno, what is part of Czech Republic, so we have nothing with this now, but slovak-made T-72 tanks from Martin and howitzers from Dubnica were sold to many countries, including some arabian. Problem is, when the country makes a weapon with preferences violating international agreements. And when UN wants to know, where those things are now, they say just "seek for it".

Okay, so let me get this straight, Caid: The Americans are better than the French because after selling weapons to Iraq, they now want to slaughter a few thousand Iraqis to "clean up" their mess? ::)

Iraq has minimum of US equipment. Maybe just food from their humanitarian help.

[Dante]

You're damn right the French government is worse than others, Dust Scout.

I said they were not worse than any others. The French have nothing special that makes them worse than anyone else. To say otherwise is racist and untrue.

[Davidu]

The French Guvernement's only ... hmmm... sin, would be that they are too independant regarding the US.