Babies going to hell...

[Acriku]

Finally a religion thread instead of the borish politics threads.

When a baby is born, obviously that baby is atheistic. It holds a lack of belief of any gods. Now, if that baby were to die before being told about the very idea of a god, it goes to hell. Simply because it did not believe in Jesus Christ and/or God (following the Judeochristian god). Now, your most likely response is the said "accountability" idea. But where is it in the bible? If it isn't in the bible, then one must accept that babies go to hell. And anybody else who doesn't have a chance to hear of this Jesus. This is why missionaries go to other countries, to try to tell them about Jesus so they can be saved. They know that without knowing about Jesus, you go to hell. I guess salvation is a lot of luck as well...

[TMA_1]

the bible talks about this. It is called non-accountability. People who cant understand christs mission on this earth, like people who are handicapped mentally or babies in the like, they automatically go to heaven.

When david was cursed because he slept with bathsheba, their first born became sick. David cried and mourned all the time when the baby was deathly ill. He fasted and would only pray to the lord about it. Finally the baby did die. He got up and dried his tears and ate. People asked him why he did not mourn after the babies death. He said, while the baby was alive, there was hope for it to become well. when the baby died though, I could not do anything about it. I will see him again when I die.

basically david told his advisors that when he died and went to abrahams bossom, that he would see his son again. God is not unfair.

[thomas]

some babies are baptised at birth though

[Acriku]

Where is the non-accountability in the bible?

[Dante]

some babies are baptised at birth though

How messy.

[Acriku]

Being baptised has nothing to do with faith. Any baby can be half-drowned for cult purposes.

[Gobalopper]

If you were blind, you would not be guilty of sin; but now that you claim you can see, your guilt remains. (John 9:41)

You could say that being blind in the above verse is not blind in the sense you can't see but that you don't "know" what sin is.

[Acriku]

Well we know what private interpretation can get us... ;)

[Andrew]

I learned in english class that the romans/greeks or someone way back when thought there were "3" universes

heaven, hell and what is between them for people who are not accepted into hell or heaven (or died as a baby)

[Acriku]

You might be talking about purgatory, but then again that applies to christianity, not greeks/romans.

[emprworm]

babies might have a valide excuse for going to heaven. They don't know right from wrong. But I assure you that though they may have an excuse, you do not! :O

[Dante]

Anyone ever see "God, the Devil and Bob" ? Great TV show. Extremely funny. One of my favourite quotes is when Bob is talking to the Devil and is looking for someone. He asks if this person could be in purgatory. The Devil laughs to himself with his little friend Smeck and then says, "We made that up." Don't you just love that? :)

Well, YOU LOT probably wouldn't... But I thought it was hilarious.

[Acriku]

Empr, was that post a joke?

Dust, I loved that cartoon! Too bad they discontinued it...When Bob asked God for the reason of evil in this world, God told him just as a train went by, when it left, Bob was "Oh it all makes sense now." :D

[Apollyon]

the unbaptised (babies or otherwise) go to Purgatory.

[Edric O]

When a baby is born, obviously that baby is atheistic.

Wrong. The baby does not have the capacity to understand the concept of religion, or lack thereof. He/she is not an atheist.

Furthermore, the idea that humans are naturally born atheists is among the most horribly flawed atheist myths I've ever seen. If no one could become religious without being told about religion, then where did religion come from in the first place?

People spontaneously discover their spirituality. In the absence of information from other humans, the vast majority of people would arrive at the conclusion that someone made the universe. This is exactly what happened when humans first started asking questions about their origins.

We are born theists.

[Apollyon]

When a baby is born, obviously that baby is atheistic.

Wrong. The baby does not have the capacity to understand the concept of religion, or lack thereof. He/she is not an atheist.

Furthermore, the idea that humans are naturally born atheists is among the most horribly flawed atheist myths I've ever seen. If no one could become religious without being told about religion, then where did religion come from in the first place?

People spontaneously discover their spirituality. In the absence of information from other humans, the vast majority of people would arrive at the conclusion that someone made the universe. This is exactly what happened when humans first started asking questions about their origins.

We are born theists.

Atheism means not believing in the existence of God(s). Thus it is logical to conclude (as babies no nothing of god) that we are born atheists.

[Dante]

Dust, I loved that cartoon! Too bad they discontinued it...When Bob asked God for the reason of evil in this world, God told him just as a train went by, when it left, Bob was "Oh it all makes sense now." :D

YAY! A fellow supporter! Did you get to see most of it before it was taken off-air?

Due to *ahem* offensive material wasn't it?

[Acriku]

When a baby is born, obviously that baby is atheistic.

Wrong. The baby does not have the capacity to understand the concept of religion, or lack thereof. He/she is not an atheist.

Furthermore, the idea that humans are naturally born atheists is among the most horribly flawed atheist myths I've ever seen. If no one could become religious without being told about religion, then where did religion come from in the first place?

People spontaneously discover their spirituality. In the absence of information from other humans, the vast majority of people would arrive at the conclusion that someone made the universe. This is exactly what happened when humans first started asking questions about their origins.

We are born theists.

Sorry for being as blunt as you were, wrong. Babies are born without the concept of God, they lack a belief in god. This is the exact definition of atheism. Let's explain. Before Homo Sapiens probably, man has tried to explain his fears and confusion with the supernatural. With the concept of supernatural, it set them at ease. This is easy to consider.

When a baby is born, and grows up to the age of talking, does it say Praise God? No it does not. A baby is not born with predisposed knowledge of a god. It is impossible. What evidence do you have to suggest otherwise?

Religion was made to explain away fears, and to settle confusion of the earth around them, bringing forth explanations of the world. So, that's why children who grow up are told all about the god of their parents, and because of the childish gullibility, they don't question it - mostly because they are brainwashed before they develop critical thinking skills.

People might arrive at the conclusion that someone made the universe because they lack the knowledge of anything else. They explain the origin of the universe by going with the supernatural, an easy explanation to settle the fears and confusion. ,

We are born atheists. A simple fact, one that you cannot deny.

Dust, I watched a few episodes when it was on CBS (or ABC?). It was hilarious, but I guess taken off the air because of offensive material - while The 7th Heaven runs through its many seasons. Hypocritical bastards >:(

[emprworm]

Empr, was that post a joke?

Dust, I loved that cartoon! Too bad they discontinued it...When Bob asked God for the reason of evil in this world, God told him just as a train went by, when it left, Bob was "Oh it all makes sense now." :D

no, it wasn't. that post was totally serious. Your thread is assuming the truth of the Christian religion. Once you grant that premise, we will now debate within that premise.

So, assuming that Christianity is true, a baby may have an excuse because the baby lacks knowledge, but whatever excuse that baby has, you do not have. :-[

[Acriku]

Yes, I have agreed that Christianity is true for the sake of argument. :) That was never meant to be the debate at hand.

What excuse? Without critical thinking skills, how can it make an excuse, much less be able to comprehend what it is excusing itself for?

[Edric O]

Babies are born without the concept of God, they lack a belief in god.

And you know this how?

There is no proof that babies are born with or without the concept of God. The only way to find out is to ask them as soon as they can talk: "How did the world start to exist?"

And what do you think they will answer?

[Apollyon]

Equally how do you know that they believe in god(s)?

[Acriku]

They don't know because they are very primitive at their age. They lack critical thinking skills. Are you saying that all babies who are born suddenly are born with the ability to think, postulate, and ponder, all of which must come with the concept of a god? The fact is, no they are not. Therefore, the only way would be for them to be born with only the concept of god. With no ability to comprehend the concept of god, the concept of god cannot exist. With critical thinking skills, one might explain the universe with a creator, a big oogabushnikala monster in the sky. Explaining things with the supernatural is not uncommon, but that doesn't make it any true. Look at my signature :)

What led you to your conclusion that babies are born with the concept of a god?

[Edric O]

I already said that there is no proof either way. You can't prove that they are born without the concept of a god any more than you can prove they are born with one.

It is obvious that humans, if isolated, have a natural tendency towards theism once they achieve the required level of cognitive abilities.

As for babies... you just gave the answer I was expecting: They DON'T KNOW. By any standards, they are agnostics.

[Acriku]

Edric, agnosticism/gnosticism and atheism/theism are two different things, not to be mutually exclusive. I am an agnostic atheist for example. There are agnostic theists, those who admit they have no knowledge of either side, but still have a belief in god. There are gnostic atheists and gnostic theists as well.

Babies lack the belief of a god. This is elementary, this should not be the debate. Babies are atheists, what is so hard to understand? To say otherwise, you must bring forth evidence to suggest thusly.