TMA_1 Posted March 3, 2003 Share Posted March 3, 2003 I have always felt bad for the fremen. They tried so hard to fulfill their dreams of their own cultural utopia. Once they had it though, it was not what they expected it to be. It is funny how that works for everyday life too. know what I mean? We want stuff so bad but when it comes true its a disapointment. The dreams that the fremen had were just castles in the sky. what do you guys think? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dante Posted March 3, 2003 Share Posted March 3, 2003 I think poor Bene Gesserit. They laboured for centuries to produce a Kwisatz Haderach and look where it got them, and the rest of the Duniverse. Their plans shattered by Jessica, Paul, and Letos I and II. The Fremen's disappointment would have been nothing compared to that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TMA_1 Posted March 3, 2003 Author Share Posted March 3, 2003 I disagree, the fremen had actual good intentions for what they believed in. The bene gesserit only cared for their own plans for domination, not for religious or moral purposes, but for simple control over any who would oppose them. The fremen truly believed this was for the good of their beliefs and for the universe. The bene gesserit were subversive and evil in my opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quoudam72 Posted March 3, 2003 Share Posted March 3, 2003 Leto I died while an infant so he really does not count as destroying their plan but otherwise Jessica, Paul and Leto II changed the Bene Gesserit plan. The Bene Gesserit weren't smart enought to control a Kwisatz Haderach Paul being a prime example. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TMA_1 Posted March 3, 2003 Author Share Posted March 3, 2003 very true. I guess nobody that knew about the expected one really expected (no pun intended) him to be like he was. It may seem silly to us, but that seems the way it goes sometimes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quoudam72 Posted March 3, 2003 Share Posted March 3, 2003 I agree with what you said about the Fremen intentions they also wished not to be slaves anymore. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dante Posted March 3, 2003 Share Posted March 3, 2003 I always sympathised with the Bene Gesserit. Even with Gaius Mohiam in the beginning, right up to Lucinda, Taraza and Odrade. I always hated how they were thwarted at every turn through their own, misguided manipulations. Always liked them.And when I said Leto I, I meant Paul's father. The Fremen were just desert Zensunnis who would never have reached their potential if not for the Bene Gesserit and their Missionaria Protectiva. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TMA_1 Posted March 3, 2003 Author Share Posted March 3, 2003 thats the point! lol the bene gesserit witches (hehe) manipulated the things most holy to people. All they did was twist culture and manipulate government and imporant people. I think they are a sick group. Go Honoured Matres! hehe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colonel_Worf Posted March 3, 2003 Share Posted March 3, 2003 The perfect utopia will NEVER exist. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quoudam72 Posted March 3, 2003 Share Posted March 3, 2003 And when I said Leto I, I meant Paul's father.Ok but still Paul's father I do not believe knew of the Kwisatz Haderach plan nor Paul until later. The Missionaria Protectiva was a lie spread among superstitious cultures it was not ment for people to really excell because of it. The Missionaria Protectiva was just a way of the Bene Gesserit protecting their agents when they came across different cultures so they could exploit them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TMA_1 Posted March 3, 2003 Author Share Posted March 3, 2003 "The Missionaria Protectiva was just a way of the Bene Gesserit protecting their agents when they came across different cultures so they could exploit them."exactly. One of the many reasons I did not like them when I read the series. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colonel_Worf Posted March 3, 2003 Share Posted March 3, 2003 I don't think you're supposed to like them... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dante Posted March 3, 2003 Share Posted March 3, 2003 Well I do. Far more than the Fremen. Their manipulative schemes only endear them to me all the more. And their hopes, aspirations, abilities and dreams give me cause to support them. And so what if the Missionaria Protective was a lie? Without it Paul and Jessica would most likely have been killed.And Leto I did spoil the plans, by wishing that he had a(nother) son. This caused Jessica to give him one and abandon the Bene Gesserit who had worked so hard to place her where she was. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vanguard3000 Posted March 3, 2003 Share Posted March 3, 2003 I agree that the Fremen are very tagic characters. I really felt pity for them when (GEoD spoiler)[hide]reading about the Museum Fremen in GEOD. They were mere shells of what they used to be, selling tickets so that people can see their obsolete and private rituals.[/hide] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quoudam72 Posted March 3, 2003 Share Posted March 3, 2003 And Leto I did spoil the plans, by wishing that he had a(nother) son. This caused Jessica to give him one and abandon the Bene Gesserit who had worked so hard to place her where she was. >:( Yes I agreed with you but not with knowledege of the plan like I said before. It was Jessica that really messed up the plan she had full knowledge of Bene Gesserit intentions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunenewt Posted March 3, 2003 Share Posted March 3, 2003 I feel sorry for the Ixians under Tleilaxu rule Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bob_fox Posted March 4, 2003 Share Posted March 4, 2003 I don't feel sorry for the Fremen; they jumped too quickly and fantically into everything. Look before you leap, guys! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anathema Posted March 4, 2003 Share Posted March 4, 2003 I agree with TMA here. When they finally got what they always wanted, they became weak shadows of themselves. And Bene Gesserit are sick people who seem to consider humans as mere pawns in their plans. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bob_fox Posted March 4, 2003 Share Posted March 4, 2003 Yeah! DOOOWWWN with those Bene Gesserit witches! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dante Posted March 7, 2003 Share Posted March 7, 2003 People ARE pawns. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alexander_Ordos Posted March 9, 2003 Share Posted March 9, 2003 Sorry for the fremen? - Indeed, in fact Mua'Dib simply used them to fullfill his plans of revenge and domination. Fremen believed in Paul because BG's came to fremen with their Misionaria Protectiva centuries ago and told them that the KH'd come and save them, while he simply caused their extincsion :'( But whom I really pitty, are the House Harkonnen ;)P.S There are NO "good" characters in Dune... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vanguard3000 Posted March 9, 2003 Share Posted March 9, 2003 P.S There are NO "good" characters in Dune...I agree. Almost every character can be seen as either "good" or "bad". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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