Poor fremen.

[TMA_1]

I have always felt bad for the fremen. They tried so hard to fulfill their dreams of their own cultural utopia. Once they had it though, it was not what they expected it to be. It is funny how that works for everyday life too. know what I mean? We want stuff so bad but when it comes true its a disapointment. The dreams that the fremen had were just castles in the sky. what do you guys think?

[Dante]

I think poor Bene Gesserit. They laboured for centuries to produce a Kwisatz Haderach and look where it got them, and the rest of the Duniverse. Their plans shattered by Jessica, Paul, and Letos I and II.

The Fremen's disappointment would have been nothing compared to that.

[TMA_1]

I disagree, the fremen had actual good intentions for what they believed in. The bene gesserit only cared for their own plans for domination, not for religious or moral purposes, but for simple control over any who would oppose them. The fremen truly believed this was for the good of their beliefs and for the universe. The bene gesserit were subversive and evil in my opinion.

[quoudam72]

Leto I died while an infant so he really does not count as destroying their plan but otherwise Jessica, Paul and Leto II changed the Bene Gesserit plan. The Bene Gesserit weren't smart enought to control a Kwisatz Haderach Paul being a prime example.

[TMA_1]

very true. I guess nobody that knew about the expected one really expected (no pun intended) him to be like he was. It may seem silly to us, but that seems the way it goes sometimes.

[quoudam72]

I agree with what you said about the Fremen intentions they also wished not to be slaves anymore.

[Dante]

I always sympathised with the Bene Gesserit. Even with Gaius Mohiam in the beginning, right up to Lucinda, Taraza and Odrade. I always hated how they were thwarted at every turn through their own, misguided manipulations. Always liked them.

And when I said Leto I, I meant Paul's father.

The Fremen were just desert Zensunnis who would never have reached their potential if not for the Bene Gesserit and their Missionaria Protectiva.

[TMA_1]

thats the point! lol the bene gesserit witches (hehe) manipulated the things most holy to people. All they did was twist culture and manipulate government and imporant people. I think they are a sick group. Go Honoured Matres! hehe

[Colonel_Worf]

The perfect utopia will NEVER exist.

[quoudam72]

And when I said Leto I, I meant Paul's father.

Ok but still Paul's father I do not believe knew of the Kwisatz Haderach plan nor Paul until later. The Missionaria Protectiva was a lie spread among superstitious cultures it was not ment for people to really excell because of it. The Missionaria Protectiva was just a way of the Bene Gesserit protecting their agents when they came across different cultures so they could exploit them.

[TMA_1]

"The Missionaria Protectiva was just a way of the Bene Gesserit protecting their agents when they came across different cultures so they could exploit them."

exactly. One of the many reasons I did not like them when I read the series.

[Colonel_Worf]

I don't think you're supposed to like them...

[Dante]

Well I do. Far more than the Fremen. Their manipulative schemes only endear them to me all the more. And their hopes, aspirations, abilities and dreams give me cause to support them.

And so what if the Missionaria Protective was a lie? Without it Paul and Jessica would most likely have been killed.

And Leto I did spoil the plans, by wishing that he had a(nother) son. This caused Jessica to give him one and abandon the Bene Gesserit who had worked so hard to place her where she was.

[Vanguard3000]

I agree that the Fremen are very tagic characters. I really felt pity for them when (GEoD spoiler)

[hide]reading about the Museum Fremen in GEOD. They were mere shells of what they used to be, selling tickets so that people can see their obsolete and private rituals.[/hide]

[quoudam72]

And Leto I did spoil the plans, by wishing that he had a(nother) son. This caused Jessica to give him one and abandon the Bene Gesserit who had worked so hard to place her where she was.

>:( Yes I agreed with you but not with knowledege of the plan like I said before. It was Jessica that really messed up the plan she had full knowledge of Bene Gesserit intentions.

[Dunenewt]

I feel sorry for the Ixians under Tleilaxu rule

[bob_fox]

I don't feel sorry for the Fremen; they jumped too quickly and fantically into everything. Look before you leap, guys!

[Anathema]

I agree with TMA here. When they finally got what they always wanted, they became weak shadows of themselves. And Bene Gesserit are sick people who seem to consider humans as mere pawns in their plans.

[bob_fox]

Yeah! DOOOWWWN with those Bene Gesserit witches!

[Dante]

People ARE pawns.

[Alexander_Ordos]

Sorry for the fremen? - Indeed, in fact Mua'Dib simply used them to fullfill his plans of revenge and domination. Fremen believed in Paul because BG's came to fremen with their Misionaria Protectiva centuries ago and told them that the KH'd come and save them, while he simply caused their extincsion :'( But whom I really pitty, are the House Harkonnen ;)

P.S There are NO "good" characters in Dune...

[Vanguard3000]

P.S There are NO "good" characters in Dune...

I agree. Almost every character can be seen as either "good" or "bad".