War will happen, WHAT'S NEXT ?

[emprworm]

temporary occupation is required or anarcy will result. i did not think this was going to be soley US occupation. Obviously, a country like Noroway wont be occupying anything since they have no ability to.

The US is not going to refuse Australian or British troops from occupying the area along with theirs. Since the US has such a large military, it is a rational conclusion that theirs would be the majority occupation. If Holland had a million member military, I'm sure they would be there as well.

[SurlyPIG]

Let me expand on what I said; The USA and any coalition countries will occupy Iraq after any war. Of that I have no doubt. They will need the military to secure the nation, protect civillians, dispense aid and supplies and oversee the nation through a difficult transition period. I find it likely that the UN will not only establish a government but a long-term peacekeeping operation also.

It will NOT, however, install it's own dictatorship to rule Iraq like some are claiming. Of that I have no doubt. I believe some of you misinterpreted both the media and the USA. Occupation does not mean dictatorial control.

For example, the US still occupies South Korea. Do they control them? Hell no. They just have a monster load of soldiers and military vehicles/supplies on hand near the DMZ should North Korea decide to invade again.

Afghanistan is still being occupied by many nations, and they're on their way to an effective democracy. My country is increasing it's forces in Afghanistan to take pressure off the already-spread American army.

[zamboe]

2) Saddam will be removed and, as done with Afghanistan, the UN (Note: The UN, NOT the USA) will oversee the creation of a democratic Iraqi government.

US will take control of it. US troops will control Bagdad for US purpouses.

Given that the War will be without UN resolution (veto power will be used), the UN will have nothing to do.

[zamboe]

Did the UN has choosen Afghanistan president ? . NO.

He is just a US puppet, awating uncle sam's commands.

If he does not what they say, US monetary help will be interrupted.

Simple as that.

[SurlyPIG]

Uhh I don't know what the South American media has been saying but all that has happened in Afghanistan politically has been carried out by the UN, not the US.

[nemafakei]

Yes, Hamed Kazai just happened to be the candidate favoured by the US; and given this, the Afghans would have hardly known why to vote for anyone else...

[zamboe]

Uhh I don't know what the South American media has been saying but all that has happened in Afghanistan politically has been carried out by the UN, not the US.

US rules in Afghanistan.

US puts the money, they do whatever they want.

UN does nothing.

Who puts the money makes the rules.

It's that way, It has always been that way.

[SurlyPIG]

I don't suppose you have any proof or facts to back up your lies and garbage.

An Afghani man elected by the Afghani people (not dictated by the US as you claim):

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/extra/features/jan-june02/afghan.html

The UN oversees the election and establishment of peace in Afghanistan:

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/extra/features/july-dec01/afghan_govt_12-5.html

Better yet here's an anti-American, anti-war website saying the same thing:

http://www.jihadunspun.net/thePlayers/newgov.htm

Until you can back up your ridiculous lies, do not post them.

[emprworm]

Uhh I don't know what the South American media has been saying but all that has happened in Afghanistan politically has been carried out by the UN, not the US.

US rules in Afghanistan.

US puts the money, they do whatever they want.

UN does nothing.

Who puts the money makes the rules.

It's that way, It has always been that way.

US rules afghanistan? HUH? where do you get this from. sources please.

[Dude_Doc]

Ace, there's nothing I would like more than for you to be right about this. I wish the US would do as you just said... but I don't see that happening.

If the US does let the UN take over and the people of Iraq are better off in the end, I will accept that I was wrong.

But if the US army occupies Iraq and puts it under a military dictatorship, will you accept that I was right? Or will you still support them?

What do you fear from the US army? Do you think they will murder iraqui people? Use poison and other killing drugs on them? Beating, shooting and raping them? Tell me why you fear and hate the US army so much.

[emprworm]

Ace, there's nothing I would like more than for you to be right about this. I wish the US would do as you just said... but I don't see that happening.

If the US does let the UN take over and the people of Iraq are better off in the end, I will accept that I was wrong.

But if the US army occupies Iraq and puts it under a military dictatorship, will you accept that I was right? Or will you still support them?

What do you fear from the US army? Do you think they will murder iraqui people? Use poison and other killing drugs on them? Beating, shooting and raping them? Tell me why you fear and hate the US army so much.

lol great point.

[Edric O]

What do you fear from the US army? Do you think they will murder iraqui people?

YES.

Let me expand on what I said: The USA and any coalition countries will occupy Iraq after any war. Of that I have no doubt. They will need the military to secure the nation, protect civillians, dispense aid and supplies and oversee the nation through a difficult transition period.

...and most of all, secure the oil fields.

It will NOT, however, install it's own dictatorship to rule Iraq like some are claiming.

Of course not... it will install a "democratic leader" with unlimited power and who gets re-elected all the time, because those who don't like him have a tendency to go on a little vacation... permanently.

[SurlyPIG]

Let me expand on what I said: The USA and any coalition countries will occupy Iraq after any war. Of that I have no doubt. They will need the military to secure the nation, protect civillians, dispense aid and supplies and oversee the nation through a difficult transition period.

...and most of all, secure the oil fields.

Even if that happens it would be a good thing for Iraq. Their economy is a bust because of the UN sanctions. ANYONE - not JUST the US - buying their oil will kickstart their economy like a pair of good jumper cables.

Of course not... it will install a "democratic leader" with unlimited power and who gets re-elected all the time, because those who don't like him have a tendency to go on a little vacation... permanently.

If that were to happen it would be done by the UN like in Afghanistan. That would be a terrible fall for someone supporting a lone world government now wouldn't it? I can assure you it won't be the US doing that, even IF they wanted to. It WILL be the UN establishing the government and whether democratic or republic, Iraq WILL be much better off.

[Caid Ivik]

So you're saying we should put a dictator in power and just TRUST him to do the right thing and work towards democracy? ::)

As for those 3 countries, notice that they received democracy DIRECTLY, not with an intermediate dictatorial stage.

Not fully true. Kostunica stayed much longer thanks to US support. Japan was under MacArthur's rule. Korea too, it was its part then. Dictatorial stage is short, because investors, trying to rebuild the country will try to have there a democracy. Your so hated economy does all!

[Miles]

YES.

Then you are a moron.

...and most of all, secure the oil fields.

Then set them back into Iraqi hands. That is the plan, just listen to Powell.

Of course not... it will install a "democratic leader" with unlimited power and who gets re-elected all the time, because those who don't like him have a tendency to go on a little vacation... permanently.

Again, you are talking nonsense. What in our history would make you think something ridiculous like this? Our goal is to set up a true democracy.

[emprworm]

"Of course not... it will install a "democratic leader" with unlimited power and who gets re-elected all the time, because those who don't like him have a tendency to go on a little vacation... permanently."

lol! Good luck miles. You'd have better luck doing a country line dance on the surface of the sun naked then convincing Edrico that the US just might not be trying to conquer the world.

[Dude_Doc]

Of course not... it will install a "democratic leader" with unlimited power and who gets re-elected all the time, because those who don't like him have a tendency to go on a little vacation... permanently.

Edric, please tell me the best way of getting rid of Saddam, and how to install a democratic government, without ANY military action.

[nemafakei]

"You'd have better luck doing a country line dance on the surface of the sun naked then convincing Edrico that the US just might not be trying to conquer the world"

Just so long as you don't complain when people warning others about your own stubbornness.

[emprworm]

"You'd have better luck doing a country line dance on the surface of the sun naked then convincing Edrico that the US just might not be trying to conquer the world"

Just so long as you don't complain when people warning others about your own stubbornness.

i never complain about that. i know people's opinion of me. the summary is:

hard-nosed

stubborn

big headed

cocky

arrogant

(ect)

i'm not complaining about that at all! :) what could I expect being pro-bush in an international forum with mainly young people? But I offer no apology or timidity for being Pro-Bush.

[nemafakei]

"i know people's opinion of me"

Stubborn is your own opinion, too, or so you've said.

"what could I expect being pro-bush in an international forum with mainly young people?"

Depends on how you post.

[emprworm]

Depends on how you post.

lol! Totally true

examples:

1. I somewhat kinda support bush (didn't mean to offend anyone lol!.). i know bush often does stupid stuff and i can totally understand why some ppl think he's like a Hitler. I mean I don't really think he's hitler...thats too far. But again, I'm sorry if I offended you for saying "I like Bush" i know that is a sore spot for many of you. America can really be the #$#$ and I'm ashamed of my country

2. George W. Bush, President of the United States of America is a man I support. I believe he is decent and honorable. I do not apologize nor should I be timid for this view that I have.

unfortunately, I am going to choose option #2 everytime. sorry guys. I make no apologies for Bush (yet).

[nemafakei]

I take it that was sarcasm, and you know what I really mean to be true. If not, let me tell you that you have not understood what I mean (or deliberately seem not to do so).

Now, let us not digress any further and return to the topic.

[Edric O]

Then you are a moron.

Then set them back into Iraqi hands. That is the plan, just listen to Powell.

What in our history would make you think something ridiculous like this? Our goal is to set up a true democracy.

Miles, how old are you, really? I mean, how could you possibly be so naive?

Rule of politics #1: A politician never tells the truth. (= never trust a politician)

Rule of politics #2: A politician only cares about himself and his own personal gain.

Your GOAL is for Bush and his acolytes to gain more power and wealth. You'd have to be extremely gullible to believe that they care about anything else.

[emprworm]

I take it that was sarcasm, and you know what I really mean to be true. If not, let me tell you that you have not understood what I mean (or deliberately seem not to do so).

Now, let us not digress any further and return to the topic.

fine back to the topic. Of course the afghans could vote for someone else. they are not idiots. why this presumption that people are midless idiots who don't know what they want? You don't think they realize they are now free? Do you not think they can comprehend the concept of "whoever gets the most votes wins, and anyone can petition for votes". Having said that, since the government is in a drastic state of rebuilding, it seems logical that the first couple of terms be somewhat "predecided" until there is stability and then the people will declare sovereignty. right now there are many drug lords still holding a lot of power in afghanistan....the #1 (i think) supplier of opium in the world.

[Miles]

Miles, how old are you, really? I mean, how could you possibly be so naive?

Rule of politics #1: A politician never tells the truth. (= never trust a politician)

Rule of politics #2: A politician only cares about himself and his own personal gain.

Then why the hell bother with democracy? You have it all wrong. A politician had better care about the sentiments and the best course of action for his constituants, or he/she will not be a politician for long.

Is there corruption in politics? Yes. That is why it is a good thing to maintain a healthy skepticism, but you carry that to the point of absurdity.

Your GOAL is for Bush and his acolytes to gain more power and wealth. You'd have to be extremely gullible to believe that they care about anything else.

My goal is for the Iraqi people to gain more power and wealth. Saddam robs, murders and oppresses his people, yet you would have him continue to rule.

Right or wrong, I believe that Bush is at least doing what HE thinks is in the best interest of the American people and the world. Even in his economic package and education reforms (which I disagree with strongly), I think he is doing what he thinks is good for the country. This is not gullibility, this is based on my observations of his actions not of his words.

You are the gullible one if you believe all the anti-American bull that you have posted. Our actions have directly contradicted what you have posted, and I wonder what fluff you are reading.