Bush invades the Netherlands

[emprworm]

Ok emprworm I suggest you back out, or really clean up your posts. This is getting (getting? said bob) childish. It is my opinion that the military tribunal in America is a great system, and finds many guilty and many not guilty. But there is obviously a higher chance of slighted jurers in America trying an American, than in a neutral country to the matter. Not to say there would be, but a higher possibility.

clean up my posts? I don't recall using profanity at anyone. other than a single rant at Edric in antoher thread for superimposing a swastika over the United States and then refusing to retract it, I have not personally insulted anyone. What is there to clean up other than my view points that people don't agree with? Surely there's nothing wrong with that...?

now to your point:

First off, under no circumstance...EVER...would you see a Dutch or Romanian citizen being tried in US soil for ANYTHING EXCEPT crimes committed in the US or if the criminal's home country volunteered to extridite their citizen here. Heck we have such a huge problem with other countries (like France) giving REFUGE to murderers who murder in the US then run to France who practically grants asylum for the murderers. Do we go in by force? Hardly.

Second, lets assume that a US soldier is tried on Dutch soil. The unbearable European public outcry would be massive. People would be lined outside the courtroom- anti-american demonstrators spewing hate and shame upon the individual- guilty until proven innocent- a virtual public stoning. The chance for a fair trial in Europe is about the chance for me winning the lottery having not even bought a ticket.

Third, no tribunal (that I know of) has ever tried anyone for war crimes except those nations who have either

A) signed a treaty granting the world court jurisdiction

or

B) were legal captives catpured under the terms of the Geneva convention and then subsequently tried under its regulations.

It is unheard of in the civilized world that anyone has been tried in international court outside of these parameters.

The anti-americans in this forum are postulating conditions that have not existed with any other country, yet for some reason they want it to exist with the US. Only to satiate their appetite for anti-american leftisim is my best guess.

I am very glad the US is not subject to the World Court, and I hope it stays that way.

[Acriku]

Clean up your spam, where the posts are nothing but slander against another's post or self. That is, if you can still argue maturely.

[GhostHunter]

Ha ha ha... poor little Emprworm can't face an opposing opinion, can he? He feels the need to ignore me and live in his perfect dream world where Bush is taking good care of him. ::)

Oh, just for the record - It was the Soviets who liberated the vast majority of death camps (for the simple reason that they were in Eastern Europe). And the Soviets would have won the war anyway, with or without the USA's help.

Err ya lol. I could see that happening. Britian batteling all by themselves while even more forces were directed to teh Eastern front meaning when Hitler got 30 miles from the Kremlin he'd have more juice........I'm suuuuure they would of won ::)

[TMA_1]

you guys, empr takes this all as a big ego trip. He recieves all of your opinions, places them in a tablet, and then takes it for a high and types back to you guys.lol If he knows he lost, he does the typical 'fight even if you are wrong' tactic. just the way some people are.

[emprworm]

vilgent is it your intent to quote everything Edric says to force me to read it? If you are doing that by coincidence, fine. If you are doing that on purpose, tell me now. I'd hate to block you as well.

I believe you are doing it on purpose because I looked at your post history and it is not your normal manner in which to make entire quotes of people before your response.

so i wont even wait for a response from you.

[Edric O]

Oooh, Emprworm is on a ignoring streak! ;D Why doesn't he save us all the trouble and just ignore everyone? ;)

Vilgent, the Germans got within 30 miles of the Kremlin BEFORE Pearl Harbor. The Americans were still neutral at the time. So their not entering the war wouldn't have changed anything on the Eastern front. The Soviets did the toughest part all by themselves anyway.

[emprworm]

you guys, empr takes this all as a big ego trip. He recieves all of your opinions, places them in a tablet, and then takes it for a high and types back to you guys.lol If he knows he lost, he does the typical 'fight even if you are wrong' tactic. just the way some people are.

No TMA. I take this to be offensive.

And I am not alone. Here are two IM"s I received from other members of this community after I locked the thread for that kind of ignorance meant only to offend:

"I am Offended by the Swastika thing as well.

Except my nation didnt send three army groups to fight in the war with them...you should have mentioed that" - (name witheld)

"Second and last. I'd like to say i'm glad you locked that thread. Tottely agree with you, Compairing Bush with Hitler is like compairing a police man shooting a man who it warned not to reach in his pockets. with a Robber of a store. And is very Judgemental and Anti Goverment. " (name withheld)

So after locking the thread due to obnoxious morally repugnant compairsons of the United States of America to the Third Reich, i was pleased to see that within 20 minutes there were 2 messages from 2 different people here that also saw that kind of sick post as having no other purpose than to p#$$# people off.

Now here is my conclusion TMA: If you post something with no other purpose than to offend someone, then 1) you are breaking community rules, 2) you are not being very open to reasonable dialogue, and 3) you are not someone I want to talk to.

[DukeLeto]

Oh, just for the record - It was the Soviets who liberated the vast majority of death camps (for the simple reason that they were in Eastern Europe). And the Soviets would have won the war anyway, with or without the USA's help.

Err, the Soviets did unspeakably horrible things to their minorities, too.

Oh, and EmprWorm, just thought you ought to know:

<< You Have Blocked This Message >>

[Acriku]

Take it like a man, and move on. So what if he posted that image? I'm a damn proud American, but I don't find it offensive because I am secure with the fact that right now we are doing what is right, so any outside opinion is just an opinion, and I move on.

[Edric O]

Yes, Duke, they did. But they were nothing like the Nazis...

Edit: Acriku, I respect you for that.

And just a funny thing I'd like to note - by locking the topic, Emprworm has made it impossible for me to ever edit my post and remove the image (not that I wish to do so now, but I would do it if Emprworm showed the slightest hint of tolerance and acceptance of other people's opinions).

[GhostHunter]

vilgent is it your intent to quote everything Edric says to force me to read it? If you are doing that by coincidence, fine. If you are doing that on purpose, tell me now. I'd hate to block you as well.

I believe you are doing it on purpose because I looked at your post history and it is not your normal manner in which to make entire quotes of people before your response.

so i wont even wait for a response from you.

Lmfao, yes Empr me and Edric plot against you, we have ties deep withen Fed2k, its a plot against you, feel our wraith, bow before us ::)

[GhostHunter]

[attachment archived by Gobalopper]

[emprworm]

Lmfao, yes Empr me and Edric plot against you, we have ties deep withen Fed2k, its a plot against you, feel our wraith, bow before us ::)

no, not you and Edric...just you.

[TMA_1]

Now here is my conclusion TMA: If you post something with no other purpose than to offend someone, then 1) you are breaking community rules, 2) you are not being very open to reasonable dialogue, and 3) you are not someone I want to talk to.

you are not being very open to reasonable dialogue

How many times have you heard that before empr. This is my take on your odd sense of reality. 1: you really just dont understand people 2: you read what people type but not what people say 3: your an ass who forces opinion down other's throats.

I tend to take number 3. Many do, and no that doesnt make you special, just a dunce.

you are breaking community rules

Oh how many times have you done the same empr.lol

You sit on your computer spouting like a typical idealistic teen and that is not an insult. Its reality.

"Where is the proof?"

That is what you will say. You always say that. Well look in the mirror.lol

[TMA_1]

whew, I think that I got a little too emotional there. I just want to say that I apologize to you empr and to any others. I got a little pissed there and it was out of line. I am cooled down now. just please be reasonable and listen to people for a change. geesh! ::)

and goodness... that is the first time I have used those eyes. It means a lot.lol

[emprworm]

TMA you have always been somewhat of a pot-stirrer in my opinion, which I find unfortunate. Why you like stirring people up I do not know, but it once affected me, however no longer.

Whatever your opinion is of me, you are entitled to it. Your posts contain numerous elements of confusion. One one hand I see you make mature posts about faith and belief and the next post I see swear words and profanity and personal attacks (once you even hinted that I would burn in hell for my opinions on the North Korean dictator). I have always been puzzled by this sort of odd emotionalism. You seem to get physically angry at words on your screen when I'm here to tell you it really is just that: pixels on your monitor.

I do not personally flame people (exception was edric earlier today - a long story, but after so many IM's thinking we made progress, he again spews his unilateral US hatred for no purpose other than to offend and insult, in which I snapped with a flame and then decided blocking him was for the better). Look at everything I have ever said about Nyar. Find me one single personal flame I said to him. Just one. Yet you can look in this very thread and find them hurled from him to me.

The simple truth is that I hold opinions that people don't like. SOmetimes people act mature and carry themselves as an adult and are able to accept this and have a reasonable dialogue over it. I am an adult and often times I talk to a 16 or 17 year old and I can't tell the difference. They speak maturely and responsibly. They avoid pesonal insults and recognize that differences in a thread stop in the thread.

Acelethal is the best example. No person in this forum have I had more diametric and heated opposition with than him. I mean our debates seem like a bloodbath! Yet few people in in this forum do I enjoy my online time with more than him. Literally (and you can ask him this)...we will spar in a thread...very heated..we will be hammering back and forth, then I will IM him and say "Hey up for a game?" IN which case he finishes up his post slamming my argument and flushing it down the garbage disposal like molded compost, he IM's me back "Sure!", and then literally the next minute we are in a knife fight teaming up and having a great time together. After we have our fun, I then return to counter his argument and slam it down into the dung heap like so much oozing decrepid biological sledge. lol :D He is a 17 year old who is able to control his emotion and his differences with my opinion do not get the better of him. Any anger he has at my argument, he has at my argument not at me, and those differences are left behind in the thread the moment he leaves the thread. You would never see Acelethal superimpose a swastika over someone's nation here (at least I believe this of him). He is simply not given to that kind of offensive immaturity. He has my respect. I believe that respect is mutual.

You and others in here, have the ability, but do not always carry it out like you could. At times you are transparent...meaning that I cannot tell if I am talking to a teenager or an adult peer with college education. Yet there are times, as with your post above, where I am reminded that indeed I am talking to a teenager. To debate with class means (to me) that you do not take pleasure in stirring people up....that you do not post deliberately to offend...and that you do not lash out in personal attacks. Such behavior is the mark of immaturity and I have great respect for those who understand that there is a difference between contending with someone's argument, and contending with another human being.

I do not hold it against you, because I know that you are a teenager, but I do believe that this skill will develop as time goes on because I think you have a lot of intelligence. I just hate seeing it degrade into personal attacks or deliberate insults.

[Nyarlathotep]

Why do you always insist on others accepting your view, but you can't have a mind for theirs ? And you keep on rambling about kidnapping, no one even said a word here about kidnapping. You can't even back up half of what you say, yet you demand others to do it.

Nevertheless, it seems as long as you agree to things it's okay, but everything else is just crap. You say that civiliants are ignorant, you accuse Edric 0 of posting crap. Don't touch Emp's little precious world, or feel the wrath of America. You my friend show what a dictator acts like and how he profiles himself. Well done showing. Now step out of your little precious world and get real for once.

That is what I have against you. You can't accept any other view then yourselfs. Even if we post the demanded proof, you still won't accept it, while you demand others to accept your view. And when you can't win a discussion, you back out by making an even bigger fool of yourself, or come up with lame excuses.

[TMA_1]

Thats the thing though empr. You use the english language to your benefit. You insult people in ways they may not understand or get, but the end result is they feel hurt or cheated. You pound your religious,philisophical,emotional,ethical and personal views on people and they dont like it at times. "pot stirring" is the best example of what you have done on this post. Take Nyar for example (sorry for using you man.lol) he is usually very calm and never gets angry. You were able to uproot some sort of annoyance in him because you were able to "pot stir". I got angry not at pixels, but at you. What I see in front of me is a carefully typed portion of what you as an individual said. That carries with it every ounce of meaning as words in person do. You need to see that sometimes you go too far. I apologized because I went too far. Sometimes though you get on my nerves. That doesnt usually happen. I can only name about four other people that do that to me out of the thousands on this site. That includes people who are extreme opposites. Does that mean I am somehow politically correct? no, because people know I am a strong christian that takes the bible as literal truth. I just try not to "pot stir" as you say so I dont upset people. When I do I usually apologize and want the person to feel better after I hurt them. You on the other hand dont really think about the words you say. You dont realize that your words do have effect on people and that words typed are just as meaningful as words spoken. i have not had nyar or earthnuker or edric or any of those guys openly say I was out of line (if they do behind my back I dont know and dont care.lol). They have toward you though. This isnt always a good thing. Sometimes it requires us to stand up for our rights. You though are open to forcing your views on others. You can be very subversive and it is annoying at times to say the least. I hope you listen to this. as I said on the prior post. listen, then talk after you have listened.

[emprworm]

That is what I have against you. You can't accept any other view then yourselfs. Even if we post the demanded proof, you still won't accept it, while you demand others to accept your view.

I don't demand that anyone accept my view.

And when you can't win a discussion, you back out by making an even bigger fool of yourself, or come up with lame excuses.

i know your opinion of me. continual personal flames not necessary.

[emprworm]

Thats the thing though empr. You use the english language to your benefit. You insult people in ways they may not understand or get, but the end result is they feel hurt or cheated. You pound your religious,philisophical,emotional,ethical and personal views on people and they dont like it at times. "pot stirring" is the best example of what you have done on this post. Take Nyar for example (sorry for using you man.lol) he is usually very calm and never gets angry. You were able to uproot some sort of annoyance in him because you were able to "pot stir". I got angry not at pixels, but at you. What I see in front of me is a carefully typed portion of what you as an individual said. That carries with it every ounce of meaning as words in person do. You need to see that sometimes you go too far. I apologized because I went too far. Sometimes though you get on my nerves. That doesnt usually happen. I can only name about four other people that do that to me out of the thousands on this site. That includes people who are extreme opposites. Does that mean I am somehow politically correct? no, because people know I am a strong christian that takes the bible as literal truth. I just try not to "pot stir" as you say so I dont upset people. When I do I usually apologize and want the person to feel better after I hurt them. You on the other hand dont really think about the words you say. You dont realize that your words do have effect on people and that words typed are just as meaningful as words spoken. i have not had nyar or earthnuker or edric or any of those guys openly say I was out of line (if they do behind my back I dont know and dont care.lol). They have toward you though. This isnt always a good thing. Sometimes it requires us to stand up for our rights. You though are open to forcing your views on others. You can be very subversive and it is annoying at times to say the least. I hope you listen to this. as I said on the prior post. listen, then talk after you have listened.

TMA, if someone gets angry at an impersonal post that is only making an attempt to engage in head to head dialogue, then that is their own weakness, not mine. Is someone is unable to control his emotions governing a dialogue and cannot distinguish between attacking an argument and attacking a human being then that is their own shortcoming. You cannot in any fairness ask someone to capitulate their beliefs or opinions simply because someone has a low tolerance for another viewpoint. Again, I will reference Acelethal. The one guy I disagree with the most- and the one I respect the most. I hope he will post in this thread, because he has that ability to not let his emotions get the best of him. If you don't like what I have to say, then post your response. If you cannot respond without deragatory personal remarks, then do not respond at all. If you want to post for the sole reason for offending someone (rather then have a dialogue with them), then don't bother. This is wisdom and maturity.

Now, don't get me wrong, I do not mind emotion in a debate, so long as it does not resort to name-calling personal flames like Nyar resorts to. I do not call anyone a fool. Not you, not Nyar. Not anyone.

[Nyarlathotep]

I don't demand that anyone accept my view.

Yes you do.

i know your opinion of me. continual personal flames not necessary.

That included no flames. It was my personal opinion of you, which if I may add you can't change.

[emprworm]

I don't demand that anyone accept my view.

Yes you do.

i know your opinion of me. continual personal flames not necessary.

That included no flames. It was my personal opinion of you, which if I may add you can't change.

if you have the perception that I try to change people's viewpoints, let me clear that up right now:

I, emprworm have no intent to change anyone's viewpoint. If I gave such a perception, it was misinterpreted. Everyone is entitled to their own views. Someone capitulating to my viewpoint is disingenuous and is not a reaction I would respect.

I respect Acelethal.

He is diameterically opposed to my viewpoints.

Then why do I respect him?

Because he debates in a mature fashion and seperates the argument from the man.

[TMA_1]

geesh thanks nyar.lol felt alone out there...hehe

nah empr you have pissed me off a few times, and that was my own fault, you just dont listen though. That is why you are such a good "debator". You are good at not listening and pushing on no matter what. I have tried reason with you, I have tried yelling at you, I have tried talking with you spiritually. You dont LISTEN! argh.lol you remind me of something I saw once. It showed caracatures of the types of people that get involved in flame wars. One of them was called "The stone". He is probably the most powerful of them all because he NEVER listens. That is the problem man. When I say this, you will read it but not try to comprehend it and just say something back at me that contains little barbs of insult and the like.

[Nyarlathotep]

Now if you could do the same for the rest of the board, you're the man.

Just face it, if someone posts something against the US, you're not going to accept it, no matter how much proof has been represented. Instead you're going to call it propaganda, or call "civiliants ignorant".

[emprworm]

when someone posts an argument that is rationally sound, I acknowledge it. i may even change my opinion on the matter which I have done in these forums. the problem is that it seems i do not listen because people often post an opinion but do not support it with facts. one example is comparing George Bush to Adolph Hitler. these kinds of opinions i have no respect for whatsoever. They are groundless, baseless hate based remarks meant only to offend. Adolph Hitler slaughtered 12 million people in acts so atrocious they dare not even be spoken of. Putting Adolph Hitler's face superimposed over GW Bush minimized the millions who suffered and died. It makes their suffering into a mockery. It is slanderous, childish, and immensely dishonorable in my opinion.

This is my opinion. If you feel that opinion is too "forceful" to you, then you and I are better off not talking.

If you think I am wrong and that GW Bush is indeed comparable to Adolph Hitler, then you better DARN WELL come to the table with some evidence because such a harsh comparision will earn a quick dismissal by me. I do not consider extremist remarks unless I see evidence- something people in here do not do much of. This thread talks about Bush invading the netherlands.

It is utter hogwash. Earth and Nyar posted some accusations. I LISTENED to them and then read the entire American Armed Services Protection Act. I bet you didn't do that did you?

But I did. I read the whole document- start to finish. find it here: http://www.house.gov/rules/delay_003.pdf

this is the actual document, not some leftist interpretation of it. i considered the premise "bush invades netherlands" and it was rejected based upon the text of the document. if you still think that the premise is true, then please feel free to tell me why, but make sure you cite the document, because that is the source of the US law in question.

And before you respond remember: I read that document. All of it. Start to finish. I read it simply because Earth and Nyar posted about it.

I read that document. Did you?