death penalty

[Lord J]

Ok. In that case, everyone who is a Christian is an extremely left-winged socialist.

I have no objection to that. :)

In fact, in my case, you are absolutely right.

LOL, no comment ;)

In a perfect government, with a perfect legal system, I would be for capital punishment.

However, with things the way they are, there are simply too many loopholes for ignorance and apathy.

I agree prisoners should be put to some sort of workforce, in Dune, that's precisely what the Sardaukar were (Unless I misread... ;) ).

In the South, especially in Texas and Mississippi, we use the prisoner population for many labor purposes. The Chain-Gang for instance.

[Dude_Doc]

Why not build some moon-base and place all prisoners there, like they did in the Lambert movies "Fortress" LoL...

[Emperor Harkonnen]

people who are for abortion are for the death penalty. so that means almost everyone here is for capital punishment.

Ok. In that case, everyone who is a Christian is an extremely left-winged socialist. Planning to move to Norway anytime soon emp?

what do you mean? we aren't like that in Norway >:(

[Cyborg]

I'm all for the death penalty, for when letting someone live will serve no purpose whatsoever (ie repeated crime, probably violence during incarceration, person in question is undoubtedly guilty of serious, deliberate offences). But 'undoubtedly' is difficult to attain.

I agree with you on that.

I'm for death penalty if someone will kill or do very much crime and violence if he lives.

[Terror]

yeah, i state my point. Some people just have no RIGHT to live

[Anathema]

I'm against it. There is never 100 % certainty that the suspect actually committed the crime, and even then I don't think it's right.

However, I do believe that war criminals (Hitler, Milosovic etc) should be executed.

[Inoculator9]

I think crimes against humanity can be answered with capital punishment, but thats about the only exception I'd make.

[Emperor Harkonnen]

I don't believe even people like Hitler should get death penalty! It is wrong! But if it is a killer who was sure to kill again when he let out of prison I acctually think death penalty would be a good solution.

but it is not like hitler could have done the same again, so therefore I don't think he should have death penalty.

[Inoculator9]

Napoleon got off Elba and did it again.

[Emperor Harkonnen]

yeah, I know. but I do not know much about the background, so I won't say anything.

but eksile is a good solution for war crimes

[Dude_Doc]

I am 100% for death penalty against people who makes viruses and release them on the net. They all should burn slowly.... and not only here... BUT IN HELL AS WELL!!!!

[Cyborg]

What about if they closed the virusmaker into a small room where every pc infected with his virus was delivered and he had to remove the virus on each and everyone of the computers ;D

I bet he wouldn't make another virus after that ;)

[Dante]

I'm only against the death penalty the way it stands at the moment. It should be changed.

I.e. I should decide. When I rule the world (Edric allowing) I'll make racism, sexism, and all kinds of other stuff punishable by ETREMELY long jail terms (think 70 years) or in really serious cases death. Murderer would get a long jail term, animal cruelty or rape would get you a short, sharp, shock. I'd appoint a council of people who would make decisions exactly how I'd make them.

People who drown kittens would REALLY be in trouble. >:(

[emprworm]

I don't believe even people like Hitler should get death penalty! It is wrong!

uhhh, I beg to differ. All humans have inherent rights...do you agree? Or do you think the government grants rights?

Once you kill someone in cold blood, how can you rationally justify that you still have the right to live?

When you CHOOSE to murder, you are CHOOSING to forfeit your right to live.

Its a simple choice. Murders choose of their own free will that they no longer want the right to live. Yet here are you people not respecting THEIR choice! You are forcing your views on them. If a murderer chooses to forfeit his right to live, why do you insist on keeping him alive?

[Edric O]

The murderer forfeits nothing. The right to live is inherent to all human beings, regardless of their actions. The government cannot grant it, or take it away.

[emprworm]

The right to live is not granted by government or taken away by government. It IS taken away by 2 beings:

#1) God

#2) The Individual

Example: The indiviual commits murder. The individual decides he/she forfeits their right to live. That right does not exist anymore. When Murderer Guido raises an Axe on my wife after butchering my child, I fire my gun into his brain. I commit no crime. The inherent right of Guido to live was forfeit of his own free-will the moment he CHOSE to commit his acts. Yes, I killed Guido, but I was not the one who chose to forfeit his right to live. That choice was made by him.

Murderers choose to commit their actions. Just like you have a right to get a license to drive a car, that right is forfeit/suspended when you abuse your driving priveliges. THe government does not arbitrarily take away anyones rights....you forfeit them when you do stupid things. Murder is no different. Your right to live.....its Your choice.

[Edric O]

I don't know of any criminal yelling "Kill me! I forfeit my right to live!" ::)

It might not be a crime to kill that Guido, but it is still a sin...

[emprworm]

I don't know of any criminal yelling "Kill me! I forfeit my right to live!" ::)

It might not be a crime to kill that Guido, but it is still a sin...

that is a bad argument, Edric. A person stealing a watch from a store wont tell you "I forfeit my right to shop in this store and sleep in my home tonight!" even though that person DID forfeit his right in that store and will be spending the night in jail.

For every person who willingly breaks the law, they forfeit rights of some sort-- but I dont think you will find them verbally declaring it as such. However, as the Bible points out, actions speak louder than words. So, if by someones actions he says "I forfeit my right to drive a car" (as in drunken driving), and then in a drunken stooper says with his mouth "I wish to keep my right to drive", judgment will require his actions as the basis to determine if he willingly forfeited his rights, and not his mouth.

And there is no sin killing GUIdo in my example above. none

[Emperor Harkonnen]

I am against death penalty even though the court is sure that the person they judge is the one who did the crime. it is wrong to kill people!

[Caid Ivik]

EdricO, we have right to live. But do we have right to die? We have no moral right to control make it coming faster.

[emprworm]

of course you have the right to die. if you really want to die, you can forfeit those rights.

You have a right to live freely. You can forfeit those rights as well. Commit crime, and your rights are forfeit. The fallacy with most of the people arguing the death penalty is that they are saying the STATE is making the decision to remove their right to live. This is illogical. When a person robs a store and assaults someone, they just forfeited their rights to live freely. When the state puts them in prison, it is not the state "choosing" to take away their rights. THeir rights were lost when, of their own free-will, they decided to forfeit them.

But for some reason, the people in here think the right to live is some kind of magical exception. They think someone can forfeit all rights but that one! They make a magical exception but with no real rational basis. My logic is consistent....the rights that a human being posesses can be forfeited by that persons own choices. The right to live is not a mystical exception.

[nampigai]

ok let's you was in a jury in a trial with a man convicted for murder. You vote for him to be executed, cause afterall he's a murdere right. The trial ends with him being convicted even though throughout the trial he claim himself to be innocent. Some time after he's killed by injection or what ever. Later on new evidence shows that he didn't do it. How would that make you feel? In my eyes that's murder.

[emprworm]

"In my eyes that's murder."

Then your eyes don't see what I see. Innocent people are thrown in jail for the rest of their life under your system. Sometimes evidence may never turn up, in this case they rot away. You ruin their lives- they might as well be dead. In my eyes that is torture. Your argument is not sufficient enough as an argument against the death penalty. It is only an argument against the process. I agree that innocent people should not be put to death, which is why the process must be much more solidified then it is now.

but that is not the same as saying the death penalty is wrong, only the process needs to be fixed.

[Anathema]

Suppose you're starving to death, Emprworm, and so are your children. There's nothing you can do about your position. So you decide to break in to a rich guys house, a guy who lives on the backs of other people, and steal some money so you can feed your family. Then the rich guy comes home. You happen to see the guys gun lying in front of you. You have two choices:

1- don't do anything, let the rich guy turn you over to the local authorities and let your family starve to death while the rich guy lives in opulant luxury

2- shoot the rich guy, make your escape and ensure the survival of your family.

The guy can't run anywhere, you think about it- it's no rash choice. If you choose #2, you are making a decision based on thorough thinking. What do you do?

[emprworm]

what does that have to do with this topic, Earth?

Its an interesting hypothetical, but I don't see any relevance.