Wicca and Neo-peganism

[exatreide]

they started on me birthday, the salem witch hangings that is

[Edric O]

You must be VERY old then... :)

[exatreide]

Me? just a whipersnaper compared to the earth hehehe

[TMA_1]

argh! your icon is driving me nuts Edric!!! I am going insane!! eyes!!! lol jk hehe ;)

[Caid Ivik]

And animals do have values. What do you think causes pythons to look after their young? Religion? Some special snakey clan? Do they bow their heads in prayer and wish they hand hands? Maybe they put the two ends of their tongues together... ::)

I'm following theory of darwinistic evolution. They look after youth, but on nothing else. They can't create. Animals fight between themselves for food, parters, area... But they think about it as normal, or better, because they don't think. They are mindless, they do only what is programmed in them. They do everything to survive the next day. Or you think I am false? If you have a truth with this, you agree you are equal to an animal.

[Caid Ivik]

So should I go out and murder a couple hundred people because I am lacking those values given by the precious religions?

No, because you have still those values. Nihilism was, fortunately, a failure. You consider killing of people "murder", so you have this written in your soul. You have our values. If you don't believe in God, it doesn't mean you are not following His way. But for example adultery or stealing has become usual.

[Acriku]

You mean I have the Pharsaic Judiasm values right? ;) We argued about that earlier. But they aren't your values. They are values you might hold and cherish, but they aren't yours. A man on an island with a companion completely lacking of any religion can decide not to kill people, because all we need is ourselves and our loved ones. Amen.

[Caid Ivik]

People in deep forests found after their many thousand-year social evolution without religion were killing much their children just to have enough food for surviving. That's not the sign of natural moralty. That's like an animals! That's pure instinct! Kill to survive! He won't kill anyone without a reason, but if he'll be hungry he will! Many times it had been done.

[Acriku]

Oh please Caid, now killing to survive is immoral? Why don't we all just die because anything we eat had to be killed in some way or another. And it seems their society was stagnated, not evolved.

[Edric O]

He said killing HUMANS to survive is immoral.

[Acriku]

Then the society was stagnated to the point of cannabilism . What's his point?

[Edric O]

I can't speak for him... You'll have to ask him. :)

[ordos45]

Digressing from the topic a tad bit? Oh and yes, I do believe in magick, I do believe in metaphysical phenomena, etc. Oh and yes, despite rumors to the contrary, I am a Christian.

[TMA_1]

well of course that stuff is real. The question is, what power is behind it? You can always find through case studies of christian counsollers that it is demonic in origin. dangerous stuff to yourself. very self destructive, though people dont have the sense to see it as that.

[kblackthorne]

#1.) Wicca is a modern religion, created in 1954 by Gerald Gardner, though the foundations were laid as early as 1949. None of its roots or infulences can be traced back earlier than the romatic poets (Byron, Shelley, et al). For the Neo-Pagans about to challenge me, please see Ronald Hutton's "Triumph of the Moon" for an accurate look at the history & pseudo-history of the Neo-Pagan movement.

#2.) Edron, if someone were to show you a decayed body, and tell you it was the body of Jesus, would you believe them? How could they possibly prove it was His? Your example of a "proof" that Christianity "doesn't work" fails, because it is a proof that would never be acceptable, even if it could be produced.

However, one could see "proof" that Christianity doesn't work in the millions of people who are dissatisfied with it and have left the Church. Are we then, by your reasoning, to call it silly & childish?

[kblackthorne]

More to the point, what is your "proof" that Neo-Paganism & Wicca don't "work"? The fact that you find them silly?

"Your verdict on others will be the verdict passed on you. The measure with which you measure will be used to measure you." (MT 7,1)

[TMA_1]

Wicca and the like do work. They are really just bogus and are shallow compared to the true forms of witchcraft that still exist in many pockets around the world. Those are the destructive ritualistic religions. Usually physically debilitating to the person doing the magick and to others around them, especially christians. They are very powerful and dangerous. Wicca is just a pretty shallow modern religion for those people who want to be different and because of certain liberal ideals, dont want to be involved in christianity and that type of "normal" religious practice.

[Lord J]

I think the real issue is that belief works. Whatever religion, be it Christianity, Modern Witchcraft, ancient forms of witchcraft, Wicca, or any form of Eastern religion, "works" because of belief.

Whether the religion in question is "right" or "wrong" has very little to do with belief. There are both poverty-level Christians and multi-millionaire Christians, there are poverty-level witches and multi-millionaire witches, and all religions apply. Take Osama Bin Laden for example.

Belief works. Whether it is something internal to the human physique, some para-psychic phenomenon, God or gods - It works. Explain faith healing or prophecy, if you don't believe it.

Ok, sorry, I got on the soap-box there for a second ;)

[Caid Ivik]

More to the point, what is your "proof" that Neo-Paganism & Wicca don't "work"? The fact that you find them silly?

"Your verdict on others will be the verdict passed on you. The measure with which you measure will be used to measure you." (MT 7,1)

And what is your proof Wicca works, sweetheart? Wicca is hedonistic philosophy based on eastern cultures. Too egoistic to be more than just a cult.

[Usul]

Why are you using Hedonism combined with Wicca as bad? Alone I can understand but Wicca says you can't harm anyone including yourself so its not.

[Caid Ivik]

It has no limits. No one knows if his action will harm somebody in future. Also, what do you think means "to harm"? Does it mean also a psychical harm?

[ordos45]

More to the point, what is your "proof" that Neo-Paganism & Wicca don't "work"? The fact that you find them silly?

"Your verdict on others will be the verdict passed on you. The measure with which you measure will be used to measure you." (MT 7,1)

And what is your proof Wicca works, sweetheart? Wicca is hedonistic philosophy based on eastern cultures. Too egoistic to be more than just a cult.

Ah but Caid, you fail to truly answer why it doesn't work.

[Caid Ivik]

I don't need you to explain it doesn't work, because I don't think it can work. What it should do also? What are you trying to reach with Wicca? Pleasure in earthly life? That is possible even without it.

[The_Sadukar]

I don't need you to explain it doesn't work, because I don't think it can work. What it should do also? What are you trying to reach with Wicca? Pleasure in earthly life? That is possible even without it.

What are you trying to reach whit christianaty

[Edric O]

What are you trying to reach whit christianaty

Communion with the Lord, inner peace and tranquility, eternal life in the kingdom of God and a better world here on Earth.