OK, so who of you are there?

[sneezer3]

Huh? He makes every single christian look like rocket scientists. I've got one word for this garbage: propaganda.

Again. i don't think you have even read anything. i sugest your read something before you go to calling it propaganda. or at lest have something to back up your statements.

because king james himself was a secret catholic. The catholic church accepts the apocrypha.

No offence but you do not know that for a fact. If he was then how come he autherized the King James bible to be translated?

its also worth noting that the people who originally translated the KJV ALSO included the Apocrypha. now, if God Himself oversaw this transation, then I wonder why the Apocrypha was included if it is false? Could it be another mistake made by the KJV Translators? Even King James wanted the Apocrypha translated. It was almost 100 years later than it was removed. But the ORIGINAL, TRUE KING JAMES BIBLE included the Catholic Apocrypha. Anyone know why?

I don't know enough about that to coment.

But i do know that God himself did oversee the Translation. Dispite all of the attempts to disprove it.

a very famous, well documented error in the KJV:

http://www.arkwebshost.com/ministries/onegospel/trivia.shtml

http://www.asa3.org/ASA/PSCF/1998/PSCF9-98Tanner.html

this one single translation error is enough to invalidate your belief of the KJV inerrancy.

Also note that the earliest copies of the King James that contain SHE mistranslations are worth $120,000 USD. Several of them are in existence.

Sorry i din't say anything on that earlyer.

They translated it to the best they Could so that we could understand it. And the bible says not to change it its written in 3 places. i'm not sure where all there at. I know where 2 is. 1 of them is in Proverbs chapter 30 The other one in the last book of the bible.

God perserverd his word. I don't know my greek and hebrew. I heard of somebody that does - a preacher you have probbly heard of him somewhere. his name is Dr. Peter S. Ruckman He knows his greek and hebrew. And<I don't know if its this way anymore> He even has the highest degree in the area. He also answers 40 letters a day with questions :O + He has to study. But he can still find time to play on his nintindo ;D

Anyway. my bible says Red see.

And i don't have your answer. BUt i know a lot of so called "Errors" have been proven wrong.

And you can always enter any bible questions in to that website. and see what they tell you you will get a reply within 2 weeks still i think.

And i cansider the bible codes Gods fingerprints. And very intresting.

[Edric O]

Why don't you two just stop this pointless argument?

[TMA_1]

"it has instead copied the perverted NIV, NASV or RSV."

--Chick, a.k.a. asshole.

He is one of the christian groups now days that only supports the king james version. Let me tell you, out of all the bibles in the world, the king james is up there in errors and mistakes. And yes I know my history, king james was a catholic. Very strong one too. This Chick guy is pretty undocternal. He has good ideas but his legalism takes it too far.

[emprworm]

But i do know that God himself did oversee the Translation.

perhaps, sneezer, but that doesn't mean it is without errors. Does God oversee your life? Do you make errors?

God oversaw the translation of the NAS, I know that as well. Do you know for a fact that God did NOT oversee the translation of the NAS?

[Acriku]

How do you know what God did or did not see? All the proof towards this is hearsay.

[Anathema]

Didn't King James leave the catholic church because the pope didn't allow him to divorce from his wife?

[sneezer3]

"it has instead copied the perverted NIV, NASV or RSV."

--Chick, a.k.a. asshole.

You have already shown where you are spirtely. You cannot call somebody that and be where you need to be with the Lord. even if he was wrong on that issue. And i bet you haven't even read any of his stuff. You are no diffrant then a non-Christan that drives by shooting at his church. and yes people do hate him that bad for no reason.

He is one of the christian groups now days that only supports the king james version. Let me tell you, out of all the bibles in the world, the king james is up there in errors and mistakes. And yes I know my history, king james was a catholic. Very strong one too. This Chick guy is pretty undocternal. He has good ideas but his legalism takes it too far.

"it has instead copied the perverted NIV, NASV or RSV."

--Chick, a.k.a. asshole.

You have already shown where you are spirtely. You cannot call somebody that and be where you need to be with the Lord. even if he was wrong on that issue. And i bet you haven't even read any of his stuff. You are no diffrant then a non-Christan that drives by shooting at his church. and yes people do hate him that bad for no reason.

He is one of the christian groups now days that only supports the king james version. Let me tell you, out of all the bibles in the world, the king james is up there in errors and mistakes. And yes I know my history, king james was a catholic. Very strong one too. This Chick guy is pretty undocternal. He has good ideas but his legalism takes it too far.

Sure he is. Sure he is. And your a computer progeram that reads over text to. :P

Makes me wonder. Why would a Cathlic autheriz a bible that is contrary to what they belive? ::)

But i do know that God himself did oversee the Translation.

perhaps, sneezer, but that doesn't mean it is without errors. Does God oversee your life? Do you make errors?

God oversaw the translation of the NAS, I know that as well. Do you know for a fact that God did NOT oversee the translation of the NAS?

I was actully hopeing you would say something like this.

http://www.theomatics.com/theomatics/home.html

http://cs.anu.edu.au/~bdm/dilugim/moby.html

http://www.bibledecoder.com/

http://store.yahoo.com/dokosite/

This is something called the bible codes. letters disanteces apart. Now they haven't found any i don't think any codes in any other versions. If any then maybe just 1. However in the KJV they have found more then even a normel book. and it might have just one somewhere. They have found some so far. that they can match up any with any world event. i hear they even found some in the greek and hebrew.

After sept 11 they found ones like "Pintagin burn" etc etc. If you want you can do your on search online at www.google.com or another search engine. type up something like "Bible Codes "

Last i saw they had found around 20 bible codes in the KJV

Let me go ahead and clear something up.

So I can accept Jesus for a while, then after that quit? Sweet :D

No. all i was inplying was once saved always saved. however if you truely belived God died on the cross you wouldn't just "Move on"

[Caid Ivik]

Didn't King James leave the catholic church because the pope didn't allow him to divorce from his wife?

No, it was Henry VIII. But before that James. "KJV" translation was done fully by english national church.

But your problematic verse with that witch isn't KJV-only. It's in LXX latin translation, from what was made our older pre-council translation in 1955 too. But read what is in explanations. In next sentences KJV also uses words like "put to death" and "destroyed". But our translation is still using word "vyobcovat" what means "to erase from the society". I saw it in more Bible translations with equal word. It was ment there to protect Israel from occultistic and immoral existences, for Israeli believe has nothing with their activities. So we must be tolerant, but not commit being influented by it.

[Acriku]

Sneezer there are countless amounts of people who have truly believed in Jesus Christ as their Lord, and later deconverted.

[Edric O]

Acriku is right.

And Sneezer - "Bible codes"? Oh please!

What's next? Nostradamus? ::)

[The_Sadukar]

"it has instead copied the perverted NIV, NASV or RSV."

--Chick, a.k.a. asshole.

You have already shown where you are spirtely. You cannot call somebody that and be where you need to be with the Lord. even if he was wrong on that issue. And i bet you haven't even read any of his stuff. You are no diffrant then a non-Christan that drives by shooting at his church. and yes people do hate him that bad for no reason.

2 things;

1:I've read most of his tracts, and I agree with both 'nuker and TMA, but I guesse now you will start to claim that I haven't read anychick stuff, am I right?

2:Have you considere that some people might have a reson to hate, but you don't see, bacause you are blinded by your faith in Jack Chick.

[sneezer3]

And Sneezer - "Bible codes"? Oh please!

What's next? Nostradamus? ::)

The bible codes are actully a preety amazeing.

Check out these links. i hope that you'l at lest look at some of them. i put a lot of work just now into finding them.<Over 30 mins>

http://www.thebiblecodes.com/

http://ad2004.com/Biblecodes/Hebrewmatrix/Hebmatrix.html

http://www.thebiblecodes.com/aboutbc.htm

http://www.khouse.org/articles/biblestudy/19960201-44.html

http://aci.on.ca/~sivan/

http://www.fortunecity.com/victorian/delacroix/169/bible_codes.htm

Sneezer there are countless amounts of people who have truly believed in Jesus Christ as their Lord, and later deconverted.

Acriku is right

Oh please. An ahthiest saying you can be deconverted and a Christan agreeing with him. You need to know your bible better. Makes me think of all of the Christans that are lazy and averge Time that they serve God is 4 years. ::)

you cannot be "Deconverted". Once saved always saved. Guess i'm going to have to find the verses that say contrery.

1 John 5:11-15

"And this is the record that God hath given to us eternal life and this life is in his Son."

12

"He that hath the Son hath life and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life."

13 "These things have i written unto you that belive on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may belive on the name of the Son of God."

Romans 5:1

"Therefore being justified by faith we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ."

1:I've read most of his tracts, and I agree with both 'nuker and TMA, but I guesse now you will start to claim that I haven't read anychick stuff, am I right?

2:Have you considere that some people might have a reson to hate, but you don't see, bacause you are blinded by your faith in Jack Chick.

#1 Well. if that is what you think then that is what you think. However i was guessing that they hadn't. Let me give you an example of my logic:

Somebody makes a post about emper on dune2k

its the STUPIDEST GAME I HAVE EVER HEARD OF. Worms? in sand? That is the most ilgical Thing i have ever heard. Projecting units? LOL how stupid can you get. On top if that it is amazieingly boring. The players of it must be crazy. and it has TONS of bugs to! and even cheaters i hear! I'm going to move up to some of the latest more 3D games. and WAY funner to!

You might make a post.

I don't even think you have played the game. ::) You should at lest play it before you go to critizing it. and calling it boring. :P

#2 95% have no real reason to hate them. besides they do not belive in God. and don't like Jack Chick. well there is one reason. but it would look silly from an unsaved point of view. if i told you and you'd probbly go off assumeing all kinds of things. so :-X

But i STILL like his "This was your life" tract. it shows what will really happen when a person dies. and its sad really. :(

[Edric O]

Oh please. An ahthiest saying you can be deconverted and a Christan agreeing with him. You need to know your bible better. Makes me think of all of the Christans that are lazy and averge Time that they serve God is 4 years.

you cannot be "Deconverted". Once saved always saved. Guess i'm going to have to find the verses that say contrery.

{followed by verses who say completely different things}

LOL. First of all, those verses have nothing to do with this subject. Nothing from the Bible supports your insane "once saved, always saved" theory.

Second, I'VE SEEN IT HAPPEN. Many people get deconverted. It's a common occurence. It happens every day.

How can it be "impossible" when it obviously happens all the time? It's like going up to someone and saying: "You can't exist. You are impossible." ::)

[emprworm]

insane "once saved, always saved" theory.

i'm going to help out here. I think what Edric is saying is that many people 'subscribe' to Christianity (known as professing believers), yet are never true believers, hence they revert from the faith (the proper word is reversion). This happens all the time. People come and go from Christian religion like fish swimming in and out of a bay. But its just that- coming and going from a Christian religion, not a true relationship with God.

What sneezer is saying is that one who is truly saved cannot ever lose his salvation. This is most certainly true. If Jesus gives you eternal life, then...well...He gives you eternal life. It is philosophically impossible to be given eternal life and then lose it- that would make it temporary life.

Read the parable of the sower. Some seeds are planted on rocky ground, etc. God does not abandon His children. You cannot lose your salvation. Those people who believe for a while and then toss it away because it no longer 'suits them' were never truly believers in the first place. They believed in emotion only- until the trials came and their true "beliefs" came to light.

[Edric O]

This is where we disagree, Emprworm.

A person can truly, wholeheartedly believe in Jesus with every fiber of his being and can be a wonderful, honest Christian... but still fall into sin later and completely lose his faith.

I am not a Protestant. I do not believe in any "assurance" of Salvation. Until you die, you cannot know for sure that you are saved. You could always turn away from Jesus and lose everything.

Edit: Yes, God does not abandon His children - but His children can abandon Him.

[sneezer3]

This is where we disagree, Emprworm.

A person can truly, wholeheartedly believe in Jesus with every fiber of his being and can be a wonderful, honest Christian... but still fall into sin later and completely lose his faith.

I am not a Protestant. I do not believe in any "assurance" of Salvation. Until you die, you cannot know for sure that you are saved. You could always turn away from Jesus and lose everything.

If you don't mind my asking where did you hear this from?

And yes there are tons of verses in the bible that says you are saved by Grace. And once saved always saved. Need me to name about a dozen more?

[Edric O]

Sneezer, after all this time, you still do not understand that we simply interpret the Bible differently?

[emprworm]

A person can truly, wholeheartedly believe in Jesus with every fiber of his being and can be a wonderful, honest Christian... but still fall into sin later and completely lose his faith.

yes you can, Edric. But you are not truly saved unless Jesus knows YOU . I implore you to read Matthew 7:21-29. Salvation is not dependent upon you knowing Jesus, but Jesus knowing you. Note that to everyone who does not enter heaven, Jesus says "I never knew you". He does not say "Well I knew you once, and then you took off, then I knew you another week after that, but 3 years later, I didn't know you anymore." lol. Jesus gives you eternal life to ALL who are saved. You just cannot lose eternal life, Edric. God does not give temporary life. If you could gain eternal life, then lose it, it would not be eternal life. Belief is genuine when tested by fire. Those people whom you THOUGHT truly believed and then fell away at first trial only prove to themselves and to the Lord that their belief was shallow and not fully part of who they were as a person. Believing IN CHRIST is not the same as believeing ABOUT CHRIST. And only when one believes IN christ are they assured salvation. And if they fall away 2 weeks later, well, that only goes to show you how shallow their beliefs truly were.

There is no biblical precedent whatsover that God gives temporary life. Eternal is eternal. There is no such thing as "temporary" in the word eternal.

Again, I implore you to read Matt 7;21-29. Of course, you can have your opinion on this Edric, but I urge you that as you move through life to be open on this issue. When I was in high school I was adamant that one could lose their salvation. I did not, or didn't want to- see the truth that no such Biblical precedent exists. Once I truly realized that God gives eternal life, my faith became so much stronger and my reassurance increased.

[Edric O]

Matthew 7:21-29 is brilliant. It talks about hypocrisy (which is, unfortunately, very widespread today), and how hypocrites will not enter the Kingdom of Heaven.

Also, IMO, the first 3 verses (Matt 7:21, 22 and 23) hint on the fact that belief alone will not get you to Heaven, if you do not act as a true believer.

But I don't see any connection between any of those verses and the issue we were discussing. Like I said, you should just accept that not all people interpret the Bible in the same way. We might not see the same meaning in the same verses.

[sneezer3]

Matthew 7:21-29 is brilliant. It talks about hypocrisy (which is, unfortunately, very widespread today), and how hypocrites will not enter the Kingdom of Heaven.

Also, IMO, the first 3 verses (Matt 7:21, 22 and 23) hint on the fact that belief alone will not get you to Heaven, if you do not act as a true believer.

But I don't see any connection between any of those verses and the issue we were discussing. Like I said, you should just accept that not all people interpret the Bible in the same way. We might not see the same meaning in the same verses.

Your takeing those out of context. but if your useing the NAS then you might not be. i have no idea.

And emprworm. if somebody hates everbody after they got saved. then they never truely accepted and truely ment it read 1 John 3:15 Also see 1 John 4:20

Oh well here goes. i'm going to point out has many has possable verses that don't seem to disagree with you Edric. but i have no idea what the NAS says.

Romens 10:9

Titus 2:11-12

Matthew 7:21

Luke 16:19-31

John 3:3

John 3:18

John 3:36

John 14:1-6

1 John 5:11-15

Revelation 3:20

Revelation 20:<Says nothing about God leaveing you>

I could probbly dig up a few more.

[Edric O]

Do I need to say this again?

Sneezer, after all this time, you still do not understand that we simply interpret the Bible differently?

Oh, and I use my own Romanian Bible. As well as both the NAS and KJV (in electronic version).

[sneezer3]

Do I need to say this again?

Sneezer, after all this time, you still do not understand that we simply interpret the Bible differently?

Oh, and I use my own Romanian Bible. As well as both the NAS and KJV (in electronic version).

Ok. if you think that way. but look half of those verses up. and you'l probbly think diffrantly. its written in Tonsof places. and i wish you'd have an open mind. oh well at lest you've accepted.

[TMA_1]

"You have already shown where you are spirtely. You cannot call somebody that and be where you need to be with the Lord. even if he was wrong on that issue. And i bet you haven't even read any of his stuff. You are no diffrant then a non-Christan that drives by shooting at his church. and yes people do hate him that bad for no reason. "

I am suprised that you say I am the one that has a horriblerelationship with God. Are you God? No you arent, so dont judge. It shows your relationship with him. Ihave liberties in chrst.

[emprworm]

But I don't see any connection between any of those verses and the issue we were discussing. Like I said, you should just accept that not all people interpret the Bible in the same way. We might not see the same meaning in the same verses

Edric, you need to do more than just attack the Biblical precedent that one cannot lose eternal life. You need to explicitly show how such a thing could be possible. THink about what you are saying: A human being with eternal life stops living. The very notion that one can lose their eternal life is logically flawed, let alone found absolutely nowhere in the Bible. You should not hold to a view just because Edric wants to hold on to a view. I would like to think that your views about God are fully submissive and bendable to what is written in the Bible. There is simply no such thing as one of Gods children turning into an orphan of the damned. It just simply cannot happen. It is a strange view you hold, Edric, however, I will not try to convince you otherwise if you are determined to have it.

Like I said, you should just accept that not all people interpret the Bible in the same way

i accept this, and I accept that many of those people are wrong. There are many interpretations, but only one true interpretation. If it is your goal to seek the TRUE interpretation, then you would be willing to lay your personal views aside. If your goal is to maintain your views, then most certainly you can bend scrpiture to say whatever you want.

"Judas Hanged himself......Go, therefore and do likewise...."

[sneezer3]

I am suprised that you say I am the one that has a horrible relationship with God. Are you God? No you arent, so dont judge. It shows your relationship with him. Ihave liberties in chrst.

I din't say you have a horrible relationship with God. I said you cannot be where you should be with God and make a comment like that about ANYBODY. most of all a Christans views of the bible. I don't judge people i am not God. But i was going by 1 John 1:6 and Matthew 12:36 You'l give an account for everthing you say. and unforituntly what you said about Jack Chick to. Thats exactly why i watch what i say about anyone.