Prayer (dun dun DUN...)

[Acriku]

Ok, I have read about prayer and its varying effects, and have come to the conclusion prayer is hollow, and is only used as a placebo effect to make the person better (placebo effect can be powerful). If you pray to God, say to save Bob dying from an unknown illness, God will either change his mind with what he was going to do, or do it whether or not you prayed at all.

So has prayer lost its original cause? Is it still being done to cause the placebo effect for some, or is it still being done because they don't realize what they are doing?

If you pray for Bob to survive, and he does, and if you didn't, and he dies, you have just changed the "mind" of an omnipotent omniscient and omnibevelent being! And he interacts with people's life (literally) and changes the course of history for all humanity (possibility)!

Or his plans were to save Bob all along and you just prayed for nothing! No reason for praying at all! So why continue praying?

And if you prayed for the lottery winning, and win, did God just make you win by his own choice only because you prayed to him? Other unfortunate people who could have used the money much more than you can, are left with nothing but one less dollar in their pocket because of God! Or you didn't win, either because your prayer does nothing for you or God felt another person is more in need of it. Could God be more favorable to do things for certain people? Then what happened to his omnibenevolent characteristic?

Just my thoughts on prayer.

[gryphon]

Have you by any change just read Wired [ Science gets Religion ] and the article about "A prayer before Dying" about the story of te late Elisabeth Targ ? ;)

Seems this subject has been on the net a few times the last month. From Wired, to slashdot and even the BBC.

[Acriku]

No, but I'll check it out now! Thanks for the heads up :)

[sneezer3]

Well. your not sepose to pray that you'l win the lottry. and most chirstans actully pray have witted have asleep prayers. I have a book that explans all about prayer <The next step from www.chick.com> but i can't seem to find it. i dug though all my tracts. and everthing. it gives exact verses to telling that we should all pray.

And we do not know Gods will. Try going <addressing chirstans here>to bed at night and praying not my will but thine be done. Ouch. you don't know his will but you want it to be done. I would say more about it but without that area of the book. i'm not 100% sure myself. it explans a lot.

And yes God could be more favorable to do things for certain people. if there doing what there sepose to. But slighly depending on what the request is and how much your in Gods will i think.

[gryphon]

You can find the articles on the link below.

http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/10.12/

[ makes me wondering why I'm still buying a magazine that's available online ;) ]

[The_Sadukar]

And yes God could be more favorable to do things for certain people. if there doing what there sepose to. But slighly depending on what the request is and how much your in Gods will i think.

Isn't God supposed to be just for all?

[sneezer3]

And yes God could be more favorable to do things for certain people. if there doing what there sepose to. But slighly depending on what the request is and how much your in Gods will i think.

Isn't God supposed to be just for all?

Well yes. if there saved then yes. But if there outta Gods will he might not answer them has much has if there in his will. however since i don't got my book i'm assumeing this.

I'm not however assumeing this.

And keep in mind he might not answer them the way you want him to. Example you din't study for a test your wanting him to bail you out. well you might still fail the test. And it wouldn't be Gods fault you din't do your part. but he could still bail you out if he wanted to. but he'd rather you learn a lession. Then you might go around saying "Hey i prayed but he din't answer my prayer! Prayer don't work for me!"

[thomas]

good god another religion thread!!??

well always remember my motto "Only You Can Prevent Forum Fires!!!"

[Acriku]

It can be contained Scy. Back to sneezer, this is all speculation on your part. Repeating what a book that was written by 44 authors over a span of 1500 years says. Or just insight from a book that was written by 44 authors over a span of 1500 years.

And we do not know Gods will.

Yet you state

And keep in mind he might not answer them the way you want him to. Example you din't study for a test your wanting him to bail you out. well you might still fail the test. And it wouldn't be Gods fault you din't do your part. but he could still bail you out if he wanted to. but he'd rather you learn a lession. Then you might go around saying "Hey i prayed but he din't answer my prayer! Prayer don't work for me!"

So just how am I going to trust your input when you also say you don't know? Hypocrisy at its finest 8)

Thanks gryphon, interesting read and interesting how many manipulate things to help prove their point.

[sneezer3]

You need to read what you Quote Acriku. i said nothing about that in that Paragraph. :P Just gave an example of how some people take prayer. You could wear somebody out mis quoteing them. and telling them how there wrong all the time.Or is that what your trying to do? Reasons like this is why i don't much like posting in your many threads. knowing your likely to attack me. >:( >:(

And i meant Gods will for are life. We know what he wants us to do. but not his will for are life.

Attack the bible all you want. I thought you was wanting to know about prayer.

And God inspired them and baseicly gave them the words to write.

[Acriku]

You said he'd rather learn you a lesson. Is that not his will? His will is for you to learn a lesson, but I thought we didn't know that? And it wasn't a misquote, you just didn't specify what you meant by will. If you want to call it attacks, fine, but they aren't, an attack would be :

Stupid christians I can't believe you have faith in such a lame book and a lame god! god murders so many people and you still believe in him? you guys need checkups!

And thusly so. I did not attack you, I never intended to, and I probably won't in the future.

And I didn't attack the bible. I worded that sentence to put less emphasis on its legitimacy. You seem sensitive to me.

[TMA_1]

acriku!!! lol it is another biased standpoint! geesh.lol corny head ;)

[Acriku]

Well what other standpoint do you want me to take? One that does not show my views? Why that's zombie talk mister!

[TMA_1]

lol actually that is how good argument goes. Also, you are already against prayer in the form that a God or Gods or Goddess' or any spiritual power exists. You are becoming less and less of an agnostic each day and are moving towards the confines of athiesm. which kinda sucks man.

[sneezer3]

You said he'd rather learn you a lesson. Is that not his will? His will is for you to learn a lesson, but I thought we didn't know that? And it wasn't a misquote, you just didn't specify what you meant by will. If you want to call it attacks, fine, but they aren't, an attack would be :

Stupid christians I can't believe you have faith in such a lame book and a lame god! god murders so many people and you still believe in him? you guys need checkups!

And thusly so. I did not attack you, I never intended to, and I probably won't in the future.

And I didn't attack the bible. I worded that sentence to put less emphasis on its legitimacy. You seem sensitive to me.

yes i am slightly sensitive. It's just you go around attacking everbody. Telling them there wrong. if somebody went around saying something like"Acriku Being an athiest is stupid! How can you not belive there is a God? Everthing proves it! There is no evedence that has been disproven that there isn't! I've taken many athiests down and your next!" and one slight mis wording or unclearness and "Hey! but blablabla you said this before blablabla and that don't make any since cause blablablablalba." I don't think it would make you feel vary wellcome.

[

Back to sneezer, this is all speculation on your part. Repeating what a book that was written by 44 authors over a span of 1500 years says. Or just insight from a book that was written by 44 authors over a span of 1500 years.

And i din't attack the bible I worded that sentence to put less emphasis on its legitimacy.

::)

You did attack it but you also worded that sentence to put less emphasis on its legitimacy like you said.

And that example well. it still don't say anything about his his overall will. and it was something i heard in sunday school class.

[Acriku]

I think prayer is great. It can help a person feel better (placebo effect) but the idea that it reaches a god and that god changes his plans to save a single human being (or some other prayer) seems whacko. Kind of bigheaded to think that such a great being would change his plans just because you asked with a cherry on top. It also is selfish come to think of it, to use a god's powers to save a loved one and feel better, when so much more on a grander scale can be prayed for. Praying for someone to live just shows you don't realize death as a natural thing, which many other creationists do (amish for example).

Going away from being agnostic? Possibly. Going towards athiesm? Already there. I don't believe in the Christian god and never will, but if there is a being out there that is the reason for all of this, that is what I am wondering.

[exatreide]

i have never worshiped a christan god.....

there for......er i have been peagen all my life? lol

i was a jew before i became atheist.

[Acriku]

Sneezer seriously, which part is the attacking? I'd like to know so I can see what might offend you in the future.

I believe you should be pointing to empr if you are talking about always saying everybody else is wrong, because I've never said that. I accept I am wrong (and have been many times on fed2k) but when I believe I am right I will defend it, but not attack the other person! Which I don't do, most of the time, some of the time it's mild such as "what have you been smoking man?"

You've never what ex?

[exatreide]

hehehe thats better.

[Acriku]

Yeah I was pagan my whole life, too, ain't it grand? *Jewish*

[exatreide]

hehe yup. you betcha

[TMA_1]

lol the hebrew God is the same as the mormon, islamic, jw, christan, etc God. So you were a jew by family, not by practice of belief.

[VigilVirus]

lol the hebrew God is the same as the mormon, islamic, jw, christan, etc God. So you were a jew by family, not by practice of belief.

Not true. Each religion has a different history, name and "discription" for God. Therefore you can't say that they are the same.

Christian and jewish God is the same, except Judaeism doesn't believe in jesus.

Islamic God - Allah is different in history.

[exatreide]

pegen i belive just means not beliving in jesus....so all of the other relgions that dont belive in jesus are pegan

[TMA_1]

to you they are variations of one in the same God. The islamic God is exactly the same, and the muslim faith believes in the torah as inspired by God and their God is the same as the hebrew God. Jesus is also considered a prophet in their religion. Christians just believe that God is a triune God. One God but three specific persons. Which some rabbi's did acknowledge in the times before christ.