What the...? A letter by Bin Laden?!

[Edric O]

Personally, I highly doubt this letter was actually written by Bin Laden himself... somehow, he never striked me as an even remotely reasonable man before... But stranger things have happened:

Bin Laden's letter to America

[Anathema]

The arguments are valid, but it all comes down to eye for an eye, tooth for a tooth. Nothing justifies what they did.

And I don't believe Bin Laden wrote this himself. Then again, who knows?

[quoudam72]

This is a strange letter based apon what it says and how it is said. The author attacks America (government policies, corporate practices) but his attack is not the ranting that one might expect from a Islamic fundamentalist. As far as reasoning goes it could be Bin Laden but I have doubts. What do we have to compare it to besides the videos that Arabic television network has been sent by whomever in the past. Or even the videos that were found several months ago in Afganistan. What makes this authentic versus it being a forgery?

[Edric O]

Most of the things he says are perfectly reasonable, which is not something I would expect from an islamic fundamentalist...

If this letter is authentic, Osama is far more intelligent that I thought... Can you say "Muad'hib"?

[emprworm]

well most barbarians are intelligent. hitler by all accounts was a genious. there is no way Osama could have built up such a widespread network unless he was highly intelligent. but that is not a compliment to him and has no favorable meaning other than his intelligence enables him to propogate more efficent violence

[Khan]

It's most unlike Osama to right something like this. Whenever he has written a letter to the US or spoken on Al-Jazeera he has always said he will smite infidels at all costs but this :- it seems like he's almost iving reason to his arguments - most unlike him.

[Edric O]

Still, these terrorists are ready and willing to give their lives for their cause. That shows admirable courage. That's why I've always considered them worthy opponents in any war. And now it seems their leader is highly intelligent. He's just earned my respect. It's a shame he's fighting for the other side...

[emprworm]

there is nothing to admire in them Edric.

And you see the logic in that letter? That letter is full of vile hatred. There is no objective logic in it at all!

The creation of Israel is a crime which must be erased.

Where is the logic in this?

Last I checked ALL nations on this earth were created at one time or another.

and the letter talks about oppression? Muslims talking about oppression? Oh please you have GOT to be kidding.

This from the same people that have BLASPHEMY LAWS and EXECUTE people for speaking against Muhammad or following Christianity.

Tell me why there is NOT ONE SINGLE CHURCH, NOT ONE SINGLE SYNAGOGUE, NOT ONE SINGLE HINDU TEMPLE in Saudi Arabia. Tell me why they have laws on the book that allow for public execution (and these laws are practiced) for people who blaspheme the name of Muhammad (Blood Be Upon Him)

When you tell me about the World Grand Masters of Opression- Islamic nations, then we can start having dialogue. Whenever I hear whining Islamic Jihadians telling me about the poor little Palestinians and Muslims who regularly oppress their people - their women, it makes me sick. These guys are the world leaders in oppression. Surah 4:32 grants every Muslim man permisson to beat his wife. And yes, they do it to, because its in the Qur'an.

When the Muslims conquered Palestine and drove out the Romans, Palestine and Jerusalem returned to Islaam

FAALSSSEEEE. Utterly false. Islam didn't even begin until the late 7th century. there were NO ROMANS in palestine at that time. LOL what a debunk pile of errant crap. whoever wrote that is ignorant of history- a peddled fool who fell for spoon-fed Jihadian crap that has no resemblance to actual historical events.

, the Indian oppression against us in Kashmir,

ahhhawwwaa the poor little muslims being oppressed. the poor things. Have we fogotten that Afghanistan was once HINDU? YOu think NOrth Africa was Islamic? Have we forgotten that Islam spread BY FORCE BY THE SWORD conquering north africa, ousting the Hindu's from Afghanistan and Turkey. Unfortunately for the Hindus, they are a majority a peaceful religion (Ghandi, for example never hurt anyone). But when confronted with Muhammad's terrorists, they buckled under his sword. Muhammad through force and bloodshed swept accross the Arabian penninsula, stretching all through North Africa, and pressed into Europe- all the way into spain. It it wasn't for the bravery of the Crusaders, Europe would be nothing more than a giant sized Pakistan today, filled with narrow minded wife beating oppressors. So now we have all these nations that are angry at being overridden and conquered and they want to regain their heritage. But poor little islamic whiners crying like babies. The irony is that if they would have TREATED their conquered citizens with more respect, then no one would be fighting against them right now. Had those bigoted Muslims when they conquered Afghanistan from India- had they actually treated the Hindus that lived there with dignity, and had given them a place, then there would be no conflict.

i can go on and on about the idiocy and illogical repugnancy of that letter, but why waste my time on a phony letter written by some jew/US-hater?

[Edric O]

As much as I agree with you, Emprworm, you have made an embarassing historical error which I must correct.

The Islamic arabs DID indeed take Palestine from the Romans. The Eastern Roman Empire, that is. We commonly refer to them as Byzantines, but they called themselves Romans. That Empire did not fall until 1453 AD.

So it is in fact you who are ignorant of history, not the author of that letter.

Other than that, you are perfectly right. But the author does have one good point, which you did not mention: Our countries, the countries of the West, are in a deep state of moral decadence.

[emprworm]

<edited the huge post. lol>

[Edric O]

End of the western empire

Yes, the WESTERN empire. Now go and take a look at the EASTERN one. It was very much alive and well centuries afterwards.

And did you really have to make such a long post? It clutters the thread with completely off-topic information.

[emprworm]

lol yea i guess it was kind of long. ok i edit it. ;D

[Edric O]

Thanks.

Oh, and ummm, since when were there any Hindus in Turkey?

Do you know what was the prevalent religion in North Africa and the Near East before Islam came along? CHRISTIANITY. Present-day Turkey, Syria, Lebanon, Jordan, Egypt, Lybia, Algeria, Tunis, Morocco... they were all Christian lands...

[emprworm]

ok let me defend the accusation with a shorter post. The accusation said that there were romans living in pakistan at the time, to which I disputed. I did not know that they labeled themselves as Romans. And if we look at the final assault on Constantinople, it describes the situation that there were no romans. i still think we are talking apples and oranges.

CRUSADER RACE WAR ULTIMATELY FAILS

Although Byzantium initially benefited from the Crusades, recovering some land in Asia Minor, the Crusader race war ended ultimately in defeat for the Whites, and by 1354 AD, the Turks had occupied much of the Balkans, cutting off Constantinople from the West. The city finally fell to the Muslim armies in 1453 AD - the date which formally marks the end of the Eastern Roman Empire. Once again, like the Western Roman Empire, the Eastern Roman Empire was, by the time of its fall, Roman in name only. The original Romans who had established the city had also long since disappeared, and it was only through repeated White armies rushing to the city's aid because of its Christian status, that is was not overrun centuries before its final collapse.

note the part about the original romans were long gone. honestly i dont know exactly WHO was living there so ill grant you that, but they did not call themselves romans. centuries earlier, all existing romans were gone.

[emprworm]

Do you know what was the prevalent religion in North Africa and the Near East before Islam came along? CHRISTIANITY. Present-day Turkey, Syria, Lebanon, Jordan, Egypt, Lybia, Algeria, Tunis, Morocco... they were all Christian lands...

and this was due to missionaries, not forced conversion.

[thomas]

its says we attacked them in somalia?

we attacked the warlord mahummad adids militia because they cause hundreds of thousands of deaths by starvation and people im somalia are african and bin laden and the people in the middle east are arab but not black soooooo what the hell?? ??? ??? ???

[Edric O]

So little remains of the glory of Constantinople... whose great cathedral of Hagia Sofia (Holy Wisdom) was greater than any found in Western Europe until the construction of St. Peter in the Vatican... who was said to be home of 2 thirds of the world's wealth... who had commercial ties spanning from Norway to China to deep within Africa... who was a beacon of civilization in a continent engulfed by the Dark Ages...

Yes, they were Roman in name only, but the arabs had no way of knowing that.

The people of Constantinople and of the entire Byzantine Empire were the greeks. The language they spoke was Greek, not Latin.

Basileus Basileon Basileuon Basileusin

[Acriku]

Edric it is not courage. It is selfish and greedy. If you die you go to heaven, therefore...die and receive all these good things in the end! They were blindly led, and blindly died. Nothing to admire in them. And you think Osama wrote all of that, if any? He does have supervisors you know, and he knows how to use them. So don't mistake this work for his. It's a shame you admire the terrorists, and respect their leader. If you were in my house, me and my buddies would literally kick you till you cry mommy, and then kick you out of my house. It's bad, but boy would it feel good.

[emprworm]

i find no honor in them. the only reason they are willing to die is because they have nothing to live FOR.

[Edric O]

If you were in my house, me and my buddies would literally kick you till you cry mommy, and then kick you out of my house. It's bad, but boy would it feel good.

See, that's why I have no respect for you. There's that little concept of "honour" which you don't seem to grasp. I feel sorry for anyone who is forced to live in the same house with such a mindless barbarian.

Oh, and if I ever go to your house, I'll remember to carry a gun. After all, it's legal in America, isn't it?

[Acriku]

Here you are admiring the courage of the terrorists, and respecting their leader who sent them to commit such terrorism, and here I am expressing my extreme distaste for that, and you call me a mindless barbarian. Oh that tickles. Do you not understand the concept of exaggerating, that I will exaggerate to express such distaste if it ever be as great as to exaggerate a situation resulting in an altercation of you and me, and my buddies? And if you do come to my house, I'll be sure to let you in with a gun ::)

[Edric O]

Terrorist or not, anyone who is willing to give his life for his cause deserves respect. The "shake-his-hand-before-going-into-battle" kind of respect. The kind of respect you have for a worthy enemy. And what I admire about Muslims is their courage and their determination to stand up for what they believe in (wrong though it may be).

And now it seems Bin Laden is not, in fact, the irrational maniac I thought him to be.

As for your exagerated expression of disgust, I'm sorry, but I'm really tired right now and I take things quite litteraly.

[Acriku]

The ability to write a bunch of rants and complaints and empty threats put together with "big" words and "rational" thought put into it, does not make an insane man sane. Even if he did it at all, and not just a supervisor or some other comrade writing it for him. Or tell him what to write. Don't make sudden assumptions, or you will wind up making an ass out of "u" and "mptions".

[quoudam72]

Have we forgotten that Islam spread BY FORCE BY THE SWORD conquering north africa, ousting the Hindu's from Afghanistan and Turkey. Unfortunately for the Hindus, they are a majority a peaceful religion (Ghandi, for example never hurt anyone). But when confronted with Muhammad's terrorists, they buckled under his sword. Muhammad through force and bloodshed swept accross the Arabian penninsula, stretching all through North Africa, and pressed into Europe- all the way into spain. It it wasn't for the bravery of the Crusaders, Europe would be nothing more than a giant sized Pakistan today, filled with narrow minded wife beating oppressors. So now we have all these nations that are angry at being overridden and conquered and they want to regain their heritage. But poor little islamic whiners crying like babies. The irony is that if they would have TREATED their conquered citizens with more respect, then no one would be fighting against them right now. Had those bigoted Muslims when they conquered Afghanistan from India- had they actually treated the Hindus that lived there with dignity, and had given them a place, then there would be no conflict.

You have alot of nerve with your outright arrogance. You talk about Muslims conquering people what about the murder of a 100 million African slaves by Europe and America during the Trans-Atlantic slave trade? Is that treating your conquered enemy justly? The last time I checked it was blessed by the Christians because Africans were not considered human. America strippped the Africans of their native language, history and everything else that they had for an identity. I would rather have a sword in my face being threaten with death but able to make a choice to live then to have my identity stolen so my future generation would be lost to rest of the world. How long did it take America to recongnize African-Americans as citizens (or better yet as humans know anything about the 1/4 rule during slavery)? One of the biggest reason that America is rich is because they never paid those Africans a dollar for their labor (if you want to talk about slave labor). As far as those Crusaders they had the nerve to say that the native peoples (called them heathans)in the 'holy land' should not have control of it and they lived there in the lands. As for the narrow-minded wife-beating muslims comment stop using the Taliban punks and other poor examlpes of Islam as a basis for your whole view of Muslims because the last time I checked domestic violence was a big problem in America. I guess that wife-beating is not just some religious or regional problem. ::)

[emprworm]

EDRIC:

There's that little concept of "honour" which you don't seem to grasp. I feel sorry for anyone who is forced to live in the same house with such a mindless barbarian.

Oh, and if I ever go to your house, I'll remember to carry a gun. After all, it's legal in America, isn't it?

LOL that was pretty funny. However, I dont think Acriku really meant it literally. BUt it was a clever response nontheless. I like your wit. I was laughing pretty hard.

QUONDAM72:

You have alot of nerve with your outright arrogance. You talk about Muslims conquering people what about the murder of a 100 million African slaves by Europe and America during the Trans-Atlantic slave trade?

cmon be fair here. Let use your same example in Saudi Arabia and see what we come up with:

Saudi's regularly imprison / put to death people for blashemy. REligious freedom is not allowed. Scores of Christians, Jews, Hindus have been butchered in Saudi Arabia due to their beliefs. Many people in the Muslim world who LIVE IN THE MIDDLE EAST are outraged that Judaism and Christianity are forbidden in Saudi Arabia. They DEMAND reform because this barbarism must not continue. Muslim leaders step up on Saudi Soil and declare that all Christians and Jews should have freedom of worship. Traditional Muslims are outraged, and a massive call to take up arms begins. As the North of Saudi Arabia engages in a fierce battle, fighting for the rights of the Jews and Christians, brother slays brother, father slays son in the most brutal civil war ever fought. Citicenz killing citizens - and at the heart of it all is the rights of the Jews and Christians. Eventually, those of the North win the fight. Over the next few generations, severe apologies, regret and reform are institutded in the country. Muslim leaders make formal apologies to Jews everywhere for their barbarism. Jewish temples are constructed on Saudi soil and Jews freely worship Jehovah. Christians build churches as well. In an effort of grace and moral duty to make up for their barbaric prejudice, the Saudi Government gives special grants, employment considerations, and full citizenship of all those who were persecuted under their tyraid.

Is that treating your conquered enemy justly?

yes it is. unfortunately the story i cited above regarding saudi arabia is fiction. but i'm hoping that things might "click" in your mind- a little light bulb might turn on- i'm hoping anyway.

As for the narrow-minded wife-beating muslims comment stop using the Taliban punks and other poor examlpes of Islam as a basis for your whole view of Muslims because the last time I checked domestic violence was a big problem in America. I guess that wife-beating is not just some religious or regional problem

its in the qur'an. 4:32-34 and it is one of the most well known quranic verses in all of islam. muslims all around the world follow this verse literally. why do you think there are ENTIRE ORGANIZATIONS that exist exclusively for battered muslim women?

they are beaten regulrarly throughout the world by millions of average day-to-day muslims. in America? no. it is against the law here. but not in the middle east. permitted and fully acceptable. in fact, it is muslim law that a man may kill his wife on the spot if he catches her cheating with another man. this is not extremist taliban- this is normal islamic law practiced by muhammad.