Coming Future

[Edric O]

Abolishing the UN means welcoming a new Hitler into power. It would also remove any illusion of legitimacy for the actions of the US.

But that's what you want, don't you? You want to give the US free reign over the world. You don't want to share power. You want the US to command and control the whole world, without the pesky UN interfering with your imperialist agenda.

[emprworm]

Abolishing the UN means welcoming a new Hitler into power. It would also remove any illusion of legitimacy for the actions of the US.

the US is legitimate because we do what we say. Despite your thoughts of the US, it has done many great things for this world including being a direct catalyst to tearing down the iron curtain and saving Europe from the third reich, and most recently, freeing 22 million very grateful Afghanistans, where women and little girls can go to school and dont have to worry about getting shot. All our allies in the UN that helped us do that should be commended. That was a GOOD thing. I know we have done many screw ups and bad things as well, but I resent people pointing out only the BAD and never acknowledging anything GOOD. Such actions are pitiful. I never hear you nor earthnuker ever say any of the GOOD things the US has done for the world. Probably becuase you are so set in your mind how evil it is, you dont even see anything Good that we have done. Such is to your discredit, then.

If the UN is ready to stand on its promises, then I will be more willing to support it. Right now, the UN is illegitimate.

You want to give the US free reign over the world. You don't want to share power.

i want legitimacy. If the US is going to be on board in the UN, and the UN makes a promise, when the US is ready to keep that promise and then takes flack from the UN, because the UN all of the sudden doesn't like its own promise, then we do not belong there. Because it is a sham. The US will be ready to join a legitimate body of world representatives. The one in place is a forgery.

[Edric O]

Then you should simply try to get different (better) people into the UN, instead of tearing the whole thing down!

the US is legitimate because we do what we say

Hitler also did what he said.

Don't get me wrong, though. The US did many good things for the world. For one thing, they prevented the Soviets from simply marching all the way to the Atlantic after WW2. Then there was the Marshall plan. The general support for democracy, etc.

As a matter of fact, I agree with the vast majority of US diplomatic actions. It's the military ones that I mostly disagree with.

[TMA_1]

we need a good war to get rid of the arrogance and pride we have built. The UN is not really needed. It only now days offers humanitarian aid and "peace keepers" or the world police force. We are not facing another hitler. The germans had the best of the best in science and tactics. Thats why they did so well. Saddam has a large military but it is piss poor in tactics and technology. No other nation poses a threat at the moment. If you named one then I would laugh at you for naming a pathetic nation. Frankly america can take care of itself. We supply about 50 percent of N.A.T.O. Forces and a huge amount of UN aid. We are the backbone of these quasi-globalistic powers. It is silly. America is its own island. If somebody needs genuine help then sure we should help super fast. It would get done much faster on a nation by nation basis. The idea of multinational entities though is not helping us at all and is frankly creepy.

[Edric O]

No other nation poses a threat at the moment. If you named one then I would laugh at you for naming a pathetic nation.

Actually, I was thinking more along the lines of...

The United States of America

[TMA_1]

lol you are apart of the western society. Its hypocrisy to go against stuff you love to preach.

[Edric O]

What stuff is that?

I am part of western society simply because it is the lesser evil. But this decadent society is by no means good.

[TMA_1]

Focus on the lord. Not on earth's evil. YOu do things throu gh the lord. The rest of the world is futile. If you get too involved in the world system it will be very hard to get out of it.

[emprworm]

Actually, I was thinking more along the lines of...

The United States of America

lol! it only poses a threat to Edrics utopian socialist society.

har har

[Anathema]

The US only does something if it protects its own interest.

Afghanian people opressed? Screw them. Hey, wait! 2 planes just crashed into our skyscrapers! Let's shoot the bastards!

Vietnam is a perfect example. Throwing napalm on civilians is sure a noble act ::). And the US would do it again too.

For the marshall aid, we are grateful for that. But it was not because you give a sh1t about anybody else then yourselves. If you are honorable then you will at least admit that. You wanted to prevent socialist parties from getting a lot of support.

lol! it only poses a threat to Edrics utopian socialist society.

You don't know what will happen in 30 years. Maybe there will be a huge economical crash. A strong leader rises, from some formerly small facist party.

And it's not just the threat from you, but also from your puppets across the world. When you're finished with Iraq you'll just install some facist dictator to safeguard your interests. What happens to the civilians, secondary interest.

The US is selfish, imperialistic and hypocritical.

[The_Sadukar]

the imperialistic dogs are going down

[Edric O]

Of course it does, Emprworm. The US poses a threat to any society that refuses to bow down to Bush and the other corporate lap dogs.

The thing is, my society will not give them any excuse to infringe on our rights. It will be a peaceful free country, with people coming and going.

[Acriku]

Yeah Edric, that's why your country is the way it is now ::)

Earth, the government wanted to get rid of the Taliban long before 09/11, but they didn't have a good enough reason - otherwise they'd be seen as bullies. Now 09/11 comes and we have a good reason. And why shouldn't a country be mostly interested in itself? It isn't selfish, it's practical and smart. No country has a obligation to help any other country, but the USA does it anyways, with rewards to it as well. You guys expect too much.

And Earth, STFU about pouring napalm on civilians, they had no idea who was who! They were fighting a hidden enemy, a lot dressed in civilian clothes! They couldn't tell whether or not they were civilian or enemy, so stop blaming US military for making mistakes! Anyone else would have made the same, or paid that price with losing even more horribly!

[Anathema]

The US should never have been in Vietnam in the first place >:(. Well, your point of view is that commies are sub people and it is legitimate to slaughter them. Even today people die because of the land mines you have neglected to clean up.

And if you don't know if a person is your enemy or not, don't bomb him! It is that simple!

If you admit the US cares more about themselves then others (I can't blame them, honestly) then why does everybody say "yay, we are the saviours, we are so morally superior" ::)?

Duh, of course they wanted to get rid of the Taliban before. But first they loved them because they gave the Soviets a hard time. Eventually the US started to hate them too but they had no intention of liberating the people.

[Dude_Doc]

People hate the U.S. because most of the news comes form the U.S. It's like movies, you can name hundreds of American made movies, but try to name 10 venezuelan movies, and you get the result. And what if the U.S. never helped in World War One or Two? Maybe it would be better if the soviets invaded Europe? No? Facist leader? Where? Prove it. The world would know if the U.S. would do anything like that. Besides I don't think the people of America would accept a facist regime, they can make an uprising.

[Acriku]

I agree the US should never have set foot in Vietnam, but alas we can't change the past. I don't think commies are sub people, I think they are misguided or greedy. We don't pick them up because 1) we don't know the exact places of them and 2)Our own men would die trying to pick them up, and there are more than US mines - korean, vietnamese, etc.

If they don't know if the person is enemy or not, they should bomb them because they would have no choice. Letting a civilian-dressed soldier live to kill a few US troops is not an option. This was war, civilian casualties are to be expected.

I admit we care more about ourselves, or atleast our government does (which is their job anyways, to serve the people, not the people outside our country), but I don't think we are morally superior?

[Anathema]

Maybe you don't, but many people do. And people like Bush attempt to look like some new messiah when they liberate Afghanistan.

[Edric O]

Yeah Edric, that's why your country is the way it is now

Huh? What does Romania have to do with the society I'm working to create?

[Sardauker-Kirov]

the US is legitimate because we do what we say. Despite your thoughts of the US, it has done many great things for this world including being a direct catalyst to tearing down the iron curtain and saving Europe from the third reich, and most recently, freeing 22 million very grateful Afghanistans, where women and little girls can go to school and dont have to worry about getting shot. All our allies in the UN that helped us do that should be commended. That was a GOOD thing. I know we have done many screw ups and bad things as well, but I resent people pointing out only the BAD and never acknowledging anything GOOD. Such actions are pitiful. I never hear you nor earthnuker ever say any of the GOOD things the US has done for the world. Probably becuase you are so set in your mind how evil it is, you dont even see anything Good that we have done. Such is to your discredit, then.

Pardon me, but the American soldiers has killed hundreds of innocent people in Afgehanstan because they suspected they were enemies. And still they had no weapons.. And still the slaughtering is continueing in Afghanistan.

Americans killed innocent vietnam people, villagers, women, children etc etc.

So did the women and children had guns too? Hmmm??

And as for the third reich, hitler made a fatal mistake by sending his troops to Moscow, while it it was a set up trap for them. If hitler ( If he didn't blinded himself with self-estimation ) didn't send his troops to Moscow, the germans could have won the war.

American has done bad things too, but they are too scared to show their "bad" things to the people and as always they are masking it so their reputation won't be in line.

And the most important part, Americans doesn't "own" the world, they can't just step up and stick their hand and nose in everybody's business.

"Oh you may not do this, because we don't like it. And we make a nice excuse of world peace bla bla "

" Oh you may not have more nuclear or bio-chemical weapons, because we are the only ones who may make those weapons. " America has no darn right to control other countries.

[Acriku]

Edric, sorry thought you meant Romania as your society. :)

Kirov, if you want to take crap out of your butt in a discussion then fine by me, but you won't prove anything. We all know you hate US, and your hatred is blinding you.

[NightWolf]

:O HOOORRAAAAHHHH AIR FORCE, WE RULE

[Sardauker-Kirov]

No sorry Bush worshipper. But there is abudance in proof that America has done bad things in the past. I'm not saying that they are the only country doing bad things. Alot of countries has sins of their own.

I hate the politics and the criminals of the US. That's all.

So think before you say something please? Okay thanks.

[NightWolf]

I WAS JUST SAYING THAT US PEOPLE IN THE MILITARY ARE GOING TO STOP ALL THOSE BAD GUYS U ARE TALKING ABOUT, I HATE PPL WHO LIKE TO KILL, AND I DONT UNDERSTAND, WHAT IS UP WITH ALL THIS TALK ABOUT WAR, I DONT BELIEVE IN IT , WHAT IS THAT GOING TO PROVE NOT A DAMN THING, WE JUST NEED TO TALK. BUT I GUESS SOME PPL CANT DO THAT AND THAT WILL BRING WORLD WAR 3 AND THE END OF THE EARTH AS WE KNOW IT

[TMA_1]

lol optimism.

[Acriku]

Kirov I think Bush is as dumb as the next guy, but he has done some good so far. Of course US does bad things, but that's ALL you talk about. It's gotten annoying.