Ghosty_Square Posted October 11, 2002 Posted October 11, 2002 I have been reading all those threads about religion, and I 've viewed both sides' arguments.Personally, I believe in God.There is a question that I think no atheist can answer: you believe in evolution, right-I 've heard theories about how life started from a single cell and developped, so that now there are so many different creatures, including humans. Then how was that cell created? Remember that scientists claim material cannot be converted to a living form.
Anathema Posted October 11, 2002 Posted October 11, 2002 I'm not a scientist- sheesh.Then you tell me- how did God come to existance?
gryphon Posted October 11, 2002 Posted October 11, 2002 2 remarks."Scientists claim", claim is indead the propper term here. And "converted to a living form". Tell me, what is a living form ? There is no true deffenition of a "living form". It can be agrued.We just all have faith in different things.
Ghosty_Square Posted October 11, 2002 Author Posted October 11, 2002 And "converted to a living form". Tell me, what is a living form ? There is no true deffenition of a "living form". It can be agrued.I don't think so.Compare a cell to a molecule. The cell is a living form.
TMA_1 Posted October 11, 2002 Posted October 11, 2002 scientists have a list that terms what a living thing is. Pretty much cells are as low as you can get. There are a few arguments weather Virus' are living. Most scientists dont believe so. Basically, does it reproduce? does it need sustinance? blah blah those kinds of things.
Ghosty_Square Posted October 11, 2002 Author Posted October 11, 2002 Gryphon IMed me, saying that there is no specific definition to "living".Here 's my reply to him:At least, do you admit that there is a huge difference between a molecule and a cell? And of course that you cannot convert a molecule to a cell? That is enough for me even if you do not call the cell living.It doesn't really matter if you call it living. The question is how was that cell, from which everything is supposed to have come from, created?
nemafakei Posted October 11, 2002 Posted October 11, 2002 What happened was that somwhere, a molecule occured - an enzyme - which had the chemical ability to use the surrounding resources to make more copies of itself. It grew in population, and this population started to diversify and evolve into other replicating proteins. Then, clusters of different proteins who could work together were formed; there wer more effective - and they became more and more complex... eventually we got cells themselves.
Ghosty_Square Posted October 11, 2002 Author Posted October 11, 2002 Well, Nema the question is how the molecule occured. Do you think that the objects around you could ever "occur" to have all the abilities a cell has?
nemafakei Posted October 11, 2002 Posted October 11, 2002 (Just remembered, it didn't have to be one molecule - could've been a small group)The answer is chaos theory. Within thousands, millions of years where the earth was as it was pre-life, there was bound to be at least one occurence, somewhere on earth, of a chain of carbon atoms with other stuff on it that would work like that.
Ghosty_Square Posted October 11, 2002 Author Posted October 11, 2002 Remarks:1-In that case you say you do not actually control your life. If thoughts are nothing but reactions, these reactions are bound to happen in a certain order, thus you 'll make certain thoughts, make certain decisions and live a life that you cannot change.2-What you say is not proven. Moreover, all scientific theories I have ever heard say there is no connection between molecules and cells.
Anathema Posted October 11, 2002 Posted October 11, 2002 1. I agree with that- humans are basicly complex devices. What we're going to do in pre-determined, but we can't predict what we're going to do, so our "free will" is based on ignorance.2.God has not been proven either.No connection between cells and molecules? What do you mean? DNA is a molecule.
Acriku Posted October 11, 2002 Posted October 11, 2002 We do have free will - why would our predetermined thoughts and reactions be different a lot of times? Perhaps some thoughts are due to genetics, but a lot are due to the environment. Changing your mind is a good example of changing thoughts you thought before into thoughts you are thinking now, which take out the possibility of predetermined thoughts. Nothing has been proven, what is your point? (Science has more validity although)
TMA_1 Posted October 12, 2002 Posted October 12, 2002 Scientists depend on time and dimensions in order to prove the chaos theory. Many scientists though dont agree with the theory. There are many ideas. Of course God has not been proved but we dont have a time machine to go back in time to find the basic RNA strands in RNA rich clay that formed more complex and diverse strands. Evolution cant be proven either. Though it is a good theory. I respect Nemas thoughts on it. He is completely unbias.
Inoculator9 Posted October 12, 2002 Posted October 12, 2002 Nothing can be proven. Faith is always a leap of faith, we can only believe, not prove. Christians have faith in God, which is a leap of faith. There isn't a single thing that can truly be proven. Humans have an idea of physics, eventually we will continuiously perfect our idea of physics, so we have faith in physics, that when we jump we'll come down. What if we didn't come down? We can't really say that tomorrow will be the same.
Acriku Posted October 12, 2002 Posted October 12, 2002 Christians put more faith into their beliefs than scientists, not with what they are believing is based on, but with how tolerant we are and whether or not we would change our belief to new theories that are more reasonable and provable. By the way, I just got an itching question on my head - conscerning the Flood (you know, noah, ark, animals), where did all that water go that supposedly went above the highest mountain? If you say glaciers in the north/south pole you would be not quite right - think of an ice cube in a glass of water. The water will not rise when the ice melts, and if you have your control (without icecube at same height) and the variable (with icecube at same height) the heights will not change. The water displaced to put in the ice is the same mass as the ice itself (not including the tops, which are so small anyways). And please spare the "all clean, God put forth his hand and said 'Let there be no rainwater' and so it was done".
TMA_1 Posted October 12, 2002 Posted October 12, 2002 good question. It says that god seperated the waters from the waters in genesis. Before the flood the earth was covered by a thick water vapor canopy. Also before the flood and even in some places now but not as much, there were vast quantities of fremen... oops.lol I mean water underneath the earth. During the flood the "Fountains of the deep" valcanos and plate tectonic activities blew up dust deposits high up in the atmosphere and ionised most of the water vapor canopy. Along with the tectonic activity. THe vast oceans underground came up. The sky rained and the ground swelled up water. After a while the canopy almost entirely was depleated and the waters recieded into the new ocean basins. The extreme change in the atmosphere caused the weather to change and the poles were created. D uring this time there was an ice age. Eventually it came to be how it is now basically. Thats how I learned it.
Acriku Posted October 12, 2002 Posted October 12, 2002 So when Noah sent the dove blah blah the earth was going through an ice age?
Inoculator9 Posted October 12, 2002 Posted October 12, 2002 Thats who nimrod was. I was recently thinking about him, couldn't remember who the heck he was.
Ghosty_Square Posted October 12, 2002 Author Posted October 12, 2002 2.God has not been proven either.You do not understand. The whole idea is to believe without proof.
SurlyPIG Posted October 12, 2002 Posted October 12, 2002 There is a question that I think no atheist can answer: you believe in evolution, right-I 've heard theories about how life started from a single cell and developped, so that now there are so many different creatures, including humans. Then how was that cell created? Remember that scientists claim material cannot be converted to a living form.Like Nema said, the chaos theory. The molecules became distributed in slightly differnt environments, and the basic life adapted to it's conditions thus the beginning of biodiversity, the founding principal of all life.We have absolutely no proof that God exists in the slightest way. We have scientifically disproven many, MANY biblical teachings that were deemed to be true. I think that, if there is a God, the bible is a total metaphor.I believe religion is a product of our own thoughts to help us ease our anxiety over things that are greatly bigger than us, over things of which we have no control. There's no problem with that, in fact I think it's good, but when people believe in something so strongly, they tend to become violent when others get in the way of their beliefs.Religion makes people do monumental things. Whether or not these things are good or bad depends on the parties involved and their stance on tolerance.
Ghosty_Square Posted October 12, 2002 Author Posted October 12, 2002 Then how were all those different environments created? how was the universe created?
ken124578 Posted October 12, 2002 Posted October 12, 2002 Out of nothing.First there as nothing, the other second there is something.
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