Debates...

[TMA_1]

So you would like the debate only because certain people wrote it? Sounds a little closed minded. Your opinions are kind of worthless since they have no base to them. Only hot air.

[SurlyPIG]

Ac, you took the words right out of my mouth: correcting opinions based on incorrect information. And offering mine too. What TMA said wasn't correcting an opinion. Of course there's nothing wrong with saying "Your opinion is invalid because..." or "Your opinion is misinformed because..." but when all you say is "Your opinion is worthless" (as he did in the following quote), then that's nothing productive or respectful.

So you would like the debate only because certain people wrote it? Sounds a little closed minded. Your opinions are kind of worthless since they have no base to them. Only hot air.

Nope I said it sounded hypocritical coming from you. The three I mentioned are intelligent, respectful adults - whom you seemed to refer to in your first post. It almost seemed that, except for the length factor, your initial post described yourself in near-precision. That would be like posting "Games are for losers" and then proceeding to play one for several hours.

But the fact that it was hypocritical doesn't necessarily mean that it was invalid. No, it was invalid because of the completely unfair generalizations you made about forum users here.

Is that short enough for ya?

[TMA_1]

An opinion is worthless when it comes from an ass. Plus I only know a few people on this site. The rest I dont know. So I dont need to be "nice" to other people's opinions I dont agree with. If there is an opinion that is completely wrong than I dont have to tip toe around and think its decent. You have the same right as me so if you dont like my opinion you can post what you want. I still think that opinion is worthless though when it has no base behind it. I say its worthless for a reason.

[TMA_1]

beh ACE and Edric. I have been the ass. I know I was wrong for what I said about you guys. I shouldnt have said those things about you. I really am sorry. Geesh I wasnt acting like a decent guy. Again sorry guys. :)

[nemafakei]

I may be telling you what you already do... but I'm just clarifying.

"An opinion is worthless when it comes from an ass"

Not necessarily!

"The rest I dont know"

You shouild at least consider the opinions first, and give people the benefit of the doubt if you don't know them well enough. Tell people why their opinions are not correct, unless you have a person you know to be too stubborn to listen.

[pointybum]

I tell you whats wrong with some of you - you're young but that aint a crime.

However, some of you offer your thoughts as though its a contribution of experience and wisdom, and yet, when I look at the ages I cant do nothing but laugh.

There were two threads I got involved in.. One is the sniper, the other is the feminists. Look them up, remind yourselves how young and beautiful you are, change the world if you can but back off from talkin shit you know nothing about.

I am a successful psychologist, 34, two children.

And some of you would say, get out here, you are too old - what are you doin here! Well, I ask myself that, and after listening to some of you, I'd love to see you come back in 10 years time and have your thoughts answered again - chances are you'd finally see things for what they really are and not from your teenager perspectives.

Please, offer genuine windows of experiences, not assumed ones.

[Edric O]

That's fine, I didn't get involved in either of the two topics you mentioned.

So whoever you're talking about, it isn't me. :)

[Anathema]

You're 34? You're profile says you're 1002 ;).

[SurlyPIG]

TMA if you think I'm an ass then I won't frustrate you with an ass's perspective.

I tell you whats wrong with some of you - you're young but that aint a crime.

However, some of you offer your thoughts as though its a contribution of experience and wisdom, and yet, when I look at the ages I cant do nothing but laugh.

I assume you are at least partially referring to me. If you believe that age has anything to do with the validity of someone's opinion, then I believe that is your loss. For the 100 unexperienced, unwise opinions you ignore based on age, you'll miss at least a few valid and intelligent ones. Sadly, as I look at those around me (not on this board mind you) I think that over-generalized stereo-type is often true. If you choose to believe that I won't mind. I just wait until I'm old enough for others like you to respect and listen to what I have to say.

There were two threads I got involved in.. One is the sniper, the other is the feminists. Look them up, remind yourselves how young and beautiful you are, change the world if you can but back off from talkin shit you know nothing about.

And we are supposed to change the world by being silent? We live in this world too. We have eyes and ears as well. We have the brains to interpret what we observe in the world. That would seem enough to formulate an opinion in my books, but if you think that real world experience makes it more valid, then, again, it's your loss.

I am a successful psychologist, 34, two children.

And some of you would say, get out here, you are too old - what are you doin here! Well, I ask myself that, and after listening to some of you, I'd love to see you come back in 10 years time and have your thoughts answered again - chances are you'd finally see things for what they really are and not from your teenager perspectives.

Please, offer genuine windows of experiences, not assumed ones.

If anyone actually holds that stereo-type against you, then, IMHO, they deserve to be ignored as well.

[Anathema]

ACE, you're 15? I always assumed you were an adult.

[Acriku]

Considering age brings a fault to your analysis. Our minds develop at different rates, you being a 'successful' psychologist would know that (assuming you studied the cognitive development area), some faster (in which case would mean experience comes shorthanded and the rationalizing of the mind falls into play).

[pointybum]

[quote author=Acriku

[SurlyPIG]

The thread was about feminism, equality, and rights. It doesn't take a genius to understand those concepts. It's not as if I was commenting on, say, marriage.

Again, if you want to laugh at the opinions of those younger than you, it's your loss. Just as white supremacists miss out on what they could learn from other cultures. I firmly believe that you learn the most from those who are different from you, not the other way around.

[pointybum]

The thread was about feminism, equality, and rights. It doesn't take a genius to understand those concepts. It's not as if I was commenting on, say, marriage.

Again, if you want to laugh at the opinions of those younger than you, it's your loss. Just as white supremacists miss out on what they could learn from other cultures. I firmly believe that you learn the most from those who are different from you, not the other way around.

You are still missing my point. I leave it as that.

[SurlyPIG]

I absolutely understand your point. Your point is that a lack of firsthand experience leads to formulating opinions that are, on your terms, incorrect or invalid. My point is that is contrary to the concept of having an opinion. There is no such thing as an incorrect or invalid opinion. There is such a thing as an opinion being derived from incorrect or invalid facts, data, or experience, but it is impossible to form all your opinions based on firsthand experience, as you say is most important.

For instance; racism. Let's assume (and correct me if I'm wrong) that you hold the opinion that placing restrictions upon others based on race is wrong. How did you come to that opinion? You can't possibly be a member of all racial minorities, so you can't possibly know what it's like to be discriminated against in that respect. You don't have the firsthand experience. Does it make your opinion less valid? No. Of course not. You formed a valid opinion without firsthand experience. Experience is not necessarily a requirement when forming opinions. It is a factor, but it is not necessary. One can still make their own valid opinions without having to live it. Surely, as a psycologist, you must have known that.

Will my opinions change 10 years from now? Of course. Not my strongest ones though. My opinions are based off my core beliefs, and I meintain those for life.

[pointybum]

I absolutely understand your point. Your point is that a lack of firsthand experience leads to formulating opinions that are, on your terms, incorrect or invalid. My point is that is contrary to the concept of having an opinion. There is no such thing as an incorrect or invalid opinion. There is such a thing as an opinion being derived from incorrect or invalid facts, data, or experience, but it is impossible to form all your opinions based on firsthand experience, as you say is most important.

For instance; racism. Let's assume (and correct me if I'm wrong) that you hold the opinion that placing restrictions upon others based on race is wrong. How did you come to that opinion? You can't possibly be a member of all racial minorities, so you can't possibly know what it's like to be discriminated against in that respect. You don't have the firsthand experience. Does it make your opinion less valid? No. Of course not. You formed a valid opinion without firsthand experience. Experience is not necessarily a requirement when forming opinions. It is a factor, but it is not necessary. One can still make their own valid opinions without having to live it. Surely, as a psycologist, you must have known that.

Will my opinions change 10 years from now? Of course. Not my strongest ones though. My opinions are based off my core beliefs, and I meintain those for life.

From where I can place it there are two worlds we live in, the micro world and the virtual world.

The micro world is where everything is at immediate hand - your family, pets, friends and neighbours, and whatever. Then there's the larger extension - the virtual. This can be the television, radio, or the newspapers. Or in this case, the internet.

Speak to anybody the way you have done will yield different responses, but closer to home the quieter you will be, the less subversive if you like. I am taking the context of the topics and putting them flat on the table and saying, what are you on about, what do you know. This works in any society anywhere in the world. This conversation certainly didn

[Dude_Doc]

Oh yeah? Okay. I can confess about being a sex machine, sometimes, yes. I admit I have benn -stupid-, like hauling beer and call my "girlfriend" in the middle of the night. Yes, I admit being some American patriot, even tough I live in Sweden, and have only been in America 2 times. Yes, I know that I say some idiotic stuff from time to time. So what? Everybody has been like this. We learn as we grow up. Besides, where is the problem? Just because you're 30 and I'm 17, it doesn't mean I'm some kind of "lower status being".

Life is a lesson, you learn it when you're trough.

[pointybum]

Oh yeah? Okay. I can confess about being a sex machine, sometimes, yes. I admit I have benn -stupid-, like hauling beer and call my "girlfriend" in the middle of the night. Yes, I admit being some American patriot, even tough I live in Sweden, and have only been in America 2 times. Yes, I know that I say some idiotic stuff from time to time. So what? Everybody has been like this. We learn as we grow up. Besides, where is the problem? Just because you're 30 and I'm 17, it doesn't mean I'm some kind of "lower status being".

Life is a lesson, you learn it when you're trough.

your answer is very typical - you are missing the point - I have not said the lower the age the less worthy. Perhaps you should intel yourself with the threads instead of jumping in with both feet like you have just done. I wouldnt dream of denouncing people because of age, and it is typical that holes are picked just for further thread sensasionalisation.

Think about what I have said instead of being ignorant and arrogant about it.

[Dude_Doc]

Nah, we are off topic anyways. Besides, this topic is leading nowhere.

[Edric O]

You, sir, do nothing but stereotype.

I challenge you to show you are "wiser" than me on one of the topics I got heavily involved in. Which are, basically, religion and politics. Please produce solid proof for your argument that all teenagers are like you described.

Not only are you patronizing me, you are also putting all teenagers into one giant mixing pot. I despise being associated with some of the other people of my age.

Either you prove your wisdom or your argument is null and void.

[nemafakei]

"I cannot accept an intelligent argument from a teenager"

This is both arrogant and unhelpful. I would debate with even a three-year old - and I would accept their points and at least try to correct them, where and if they err, and help them understand.

I agree that that teeneages have experienced less than adults, so yes, their experience is less likely to be fully representative of actuality, but consider also that teenagers are in the middle of intensive education. They can be very well informed.

You cannot apply a general tendancy to mean a rigid . Many teenagers are intelligent, many are stupid, but so can be adults; more than enough to make up for lack of experience.

[pointybum]

You, sir, do nothing but stereotype.

I challenge you to show you are "wiser" than me on one of the topics I got heavily involved in. Which are, basically, religion and politics. Please produce solid proof for your argument that all teenagers are like you described.

Not only are you patronizing me, you are also putting all teenagers into one giant mixing pot. I despise being associated with some of the other people of my age.

Either you prove your wisdom or your argument is null and void.

lol

I have nothing to prove to you other than to ask you not jump in with both feet without doing your research properly.

But just to please you, I will say this. Tell me the strength of an arguement a 16 year old has over somebody who is twice as old, twice as experienced, and definately the wiser. I have said many times that I have distanced myself and taken the broad view - i.e. try to see it from my own perspective from when I was 15/16 and then look again as I am now.

So, if you consider it from that angle - i.e look at the world around from when you were, say 14, and then look again as you are now - how much more do you know and how different are your understandings and views? Your love for politics and religion - these will change too as you get older - its not guaranteed but it is usually the case.

Debates are extremely healthy for the heart and mind, but I do think it is wrong for people to talk in context as if they are talking from experience. My threads on the feminists will illustrate my point very clearly for you.

And finally, suggesting that you are better than some other teenagers is already contradicting your arguement vs mine - I should be careful what you say.

[Edric O]

Tell me the strength of an arguement a 16 year old has over somebody who is twice as old, twice as experienced, and definately the wiser.

Prove it.

All I can see for now is your overwhelming arrogance. If you are so wise, prove it. Show me why should your opinion carry any more importance than mine.

Edit:

And finally, suggesting that you are better than some other teenagers is already contradicting your arguement vs mine

I'm not arguing on behalf of all teenagers. I'm arguing on MY behalf.

[pointybum]

Tell me the strength of an arguement a 16 year old has over somebody who is twice as old, twice as experienced, and definately the wiser.

Prove it.

All I can see for now is your overwhelming arrogance. If you are so wise, prove it. Show me why should your opinion carry any more importance than mine.

Edit:

And finally, suggesting that you are better than some other teenagers is already contradicting your arguement vs mine

I'm not arguing on behalf of all teenagers. I'm arguing on MY behalf.

Doesnt that just rest my case once again? Look at my thread and answer me then!

If you insist that you are different to the other teenagers (which suggests you see my point but still argue against it), answer my thoughts objectively instead of demanding evidence. My previous points are all there, it suggests to me you havent done any reading and have taken the lazy argumentative approach.

So, remove that boil from your head and offer me an input that suggests that I am wrong and you are right.

[Edric O]

What exactly do you want me to do?

1. You have made a general claim that implies you are superior to all teenagers.

2. I only argue that you are NOT superior to ME just because of your age. When it comes to other teenagers, I have no interest to dispute your claim.

3. The burden of proof is on the person making the claim. You have made a general claim. Either prove it to be true in my case, or exclude me from that general claim.

You made the claim, so the burden of proof is on YOU. I am innocent until proven guilty.

Edit: Yes, I read all your points. But I asked you to back them up with evidence. Do that or withdraw them. I know your "theory". Now what I want is evidence.