Startup: Disk could have bad clusters on it

[IxianMace]

I just started up my computer this morning, and when it starts to load Windows 98, all of a sudden it says: "One of your disk drives may have bad clusters on them. Run Scandisk to check it etc, etc..."

The computer was fine last night. I don't know what went wrong? Help!!

[Gobalopper]

Did you run Scandisk?

[IxianMace]

I ran scandisk at first, but then it got up to the part where it did the surface scan. My hard drive has a capacity of 37.2 gigs, and just under 7,400 clusters represent 1 block. I waited until scandisk had scanned the first two rows, (which was basically all the clusters that were used, the rest of the disk was virtually empty), but there wasn't a single bad cluster found. So I quit the program, and looked at the log. No problems found. I didn't finish the whole disk however, because that would have taken ages. Should I scan the whole disk next time? :- :-[

[Gobalopper]

Does it always say that when you bootup or just that one time?

[IxianMace]

Ever since it started, it keeps on saying it. ???

[Gobalopper]

Might want to just scan it overnight one time since it is going to take a fairly long time to complete.

[Navaros]

i have the EXACT same problem but my HD is fried totally so i am waiting for a new one to ship though my comp still works barely

I can never get through scandisk because at cluster 815,982 it gives me a message like: "scandisk has encountered an error would you like to fix it?" and until i press the enter key, it does nothing. Then at cluster 815,983 it does the SAME THING. Thus, I'd have to sit at my comp staring at the scandisk screen and nothing else all day long just to hit the enter key every single time an error comes up.

This is when I run it from MS-DOS mode. If I run scandisk for Windows, it just completely *freezes* every time a problem comes up.

Is there any way to make scandisk for DOS *automatically* correct errors?

And how are bad clusters repaired??? Scandisck just moves the data out of the bad clusters, but does not repair them. Why not?

[Gobalopper]

I don't know for sure but it may just be that the cluster is unrepairable. Usually bad clusters is a sign your hard drive could fail. You may want to check out SpinRite although it costs money.

http://grc.com/spinrite.htm

[IxianMace]

My hard drive failing already? But I've only had the new computer for a short time! The hard drive on the old computer never had any bad cluster reports on it.

[Gobalopper]

I lost my hard drive after less then a year without any warning. It can happen at anytime.

[Navaros]

My hard drive failing already? But I've only had the new computer for almost 1.5 years! The hard drive on the old computer never had any bad cluster reports on it.

me too man. i take immaculate care of my comp and this HD fried in less than 1.5 years >:(

that's why i hate magnetic storage mediums. magnetic fields are everywhere. ::)

[zamboe]

I read in PCMag there is 95% possibility that if your hardware device works fine the first month it will work fine the next 4 years (with proper use of course). The rest 5% are just the outliners and therefore might fail anytime.

[Timenn]

I sounds stupid, but you may want to check your power supply. The strangest problems can be caused by this, any hardware problem, or that a new card doesn't work, and it looks like that that card is too 'new' for your computer, like I had.

So, your power supply is 1.5 years old too?

[IxianMace]

Well the power supply was bought with the computer package, so I'll assume it's the same age as the rest of the components in the computer.

Pheewww!! That was SOME marathon maintenance session. At least 3 hours to complete the surface scan. Not a single bad cluster. Very fortunate. Then I restarted, the message didn't pop up again, however I had to format my hard drive because a previous system crash that caused windows to be shut down improperly made me lose 7 clusters in 2 chains. After the format, it took almost another 3 hours to put everything back on from scratch. That's the 3rd time I've formatted my hard drive in 7 days!! :O Anyway, the surface scan revealed no bad clusters. I'm still baffled as to how the bad cluster message appeared in the first place. For now, I seem to have killed it myself.

[Nyarlathotep]

Glad you got it fixed though. As some advice, a lot of harddrives have more then a 1 year warrenty. If it happens again, you might want to ask the supplier to replace the harddrive.

PS. check what brand and type of harddrive you have, before you call the supplier. Then check the website of the harddisk supplier and look at their warrenty rules (it should say how long the warrenty holds).

[IxianMace]

I didn't want to start a new thead because I feel this thread can still be used and is relevant. So here goes:

Firstly, I tried to defragment drive E (disk partition that has the games on it) and Disk Defragmenter said that it "could not access part of drive E". So I ran Scandisk as directed and found an error. This involved one or more bad clusters. So I cancelled Scandisk and restarted in MS-DOS mode. I scanned drive E using the surface scan in the Scandisk for DOS. It found 1 bad cluster, which was patched. So then I restarted windows and scanned ALL my disk partitions using the thorough option. I scanned ALL system and data area clusters. No errors were found, except for in drive E, where it said that there were 24,576 bytes in bad clusters (which was presumably patched by Scandisk for DOS, when I ran the DOS Scandisk surface scan earlier). Additionally, when I was scanning disk partition drive F, my hard disk made some unusual sounds. It sounded like the hard drive was going into standby mode and then immediately coming active again (from the way the sounds were). It also made those sounds when I defragmented drive F. These sounds only occured when I was scanning/defragmenting disk partition drive F, which I find very interesting (and concerning). ??? When I was defragmenting drive E and looking at all the cluster boxes in the defragmenter details window, I noticed that there were 3 boxes that had a slash across them (which means that they are marked as bad, according to the legend on the disk defragmenter program). However the surface scan that I performed on drive E using the DOS Scandisk only revealed 1 bad cluster. ??? I don't understand how 3 bad clusters could appear when I was defragmenting the drive, when I had just performed a scan (and patched the one bad cluster that was detected), and after I ran Scandisk for windows thoroughly and no more errors were found. ???

Some things I'd like to know in specific:

1. Do you think my hard drive is going to crash? (i.e. time for a new HD)?

2. How much space (in KB) have I lost in bad clusters? 25KB?

Below is the results of the Scandisk log that I saved. It may help to make things clearer here:

*******************

Microsoft ScanDisk for Windows

NOTE: If you use an MS-DOS program to view this file, some of the characters

may appear incorrectly. Use a Windows program such as Notepad instead.

Log file generated at 21:16 on 1/26/2003.

ScanDisk used the following options:

Thorough test

Drive Sector 2 (E:) contained the following errors:

ScanDisk could not properly read from or write to cluster 266656.

This cluster is currently unused.

Resolution: Cancel ScanDisk

ScanDisk was canceled.

-------------------

Microsoft ScanDisk

Log file generated at 11:11PM on Sunday, January 26, 2003.

ScanDisk checked drive E for problems, with the following results:

Directory structure

ScanDisk did not find any problems.

File allocation table

ScanDisk did not find any problems.

File system

ScanDisk did not find any problems.

Surface scan

Data could not be read from cluster 266,656.

There is no file using cluster 266,656.

ScanDisk patched the cluster successfully.

*******************

Microsoft ScanDisk for Windows

NOTE: If you use an MS-DOS program to view this file, some of the characters

may appear incorrectly. Use a Windows program such as Notepad instead.

Log file generated at 15:00 on 1/27/2003.

ScanDisk used the following options:

Thorough test

Drive Ixian vault (C:) contained the following errors:

ScanDisk did not find any errors on this drive.

-------------------

*******************

Microsoft ScanDisk for Windows

NOTE: If you use an MS-DOS program to view this file, some of the characters

may appear incorrectly. Use a Windows program such as Notepad instead.

Log file generated at 15:45 on 1/27/2003.

ScanDisk used the following options:

Thorough test

Drive Sector 1 (D:) contained the following errors:

ScanDisk did not find any errors on this drive.

-------------------

*******************

Microsoft ScanDisk for Windows

NOTE: If you use an MS-DOS program to view this file, some of the characters

may appear incorrectly. Use a Windows program such as Notepad instead.

Log file generated at 16:47 on 1/27/2003.

ScanDisk used the following options:

Thorough test

Drive Sector 2 (E:) contained the following errors:

ScanDisk did not find any errors on this drive.

-------------------

*******************

Microsoft ScanDisk for Windows

NOTE: If you use an MS-DOS program to view this file, some of the characters

may appear incorrectly. Use a Windows program such as Notepad instead.

Log file generated at 17:56 on 1/27/2003.

ScanDisk used the following options:

Thorough test

Drive Sector 3 (F:) contained the following errors:

ScanDisk did not find any errors on this drive.

-------------------

[number6]

To answer your questions (sort of):

1) I believe it is only a matter of time for disk failure if you are seeing messages like this. You should be OK for the time being. I would take a wait and see approach, but I would definitely backup any vital data on the disk in question. I would also stash away enough cash for a replacement disk.

2) Not sure. Did the scandisk program say how many clusters per block in the legend? FAT32 filesystems contain 4 bytes per cluster. If you only marked 3 clusters as bad you are only wasting 12 bytes.

[IxianMace]

Well here are the statistics for disk partition drive E:

10,440,032 KB total disk space

24,576 bytes in bad sectors

6,750,208 bytes in 805 folders

24,576 bytes in 2 hidden files

5,291,240 KB in 9,019 user files

5,142,152 KB available on disk

8,192 bytes in each allocation unit

1,305,004 total allocation units on disk

642,769 available allocation units.

[number6]

Well that block you are seeing in scandisk, how many clusters does that represent? I am not sure about that part, but obviously the output you just provided shows 24K in bad sectors so that is what you are not able to use on that disk. I will try and see what I can find on Disk terminology when I go to work tomorrow.

Here is an interesting article on how to force Windows 98 to try and rescan the sectors marked as bad:

http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=KB;en-us;q127055

[IxianMace]

Well I forced Scandisk to retest the bad cluster(s), and it seems that those bad cluster(s) really are bad. I have no idea what could have caused my hard drive to sustain physical damage, I mean, I didn't go and bang on top of the tower or something... ::)

Anyway, do you have an idea about how long it will take for my hard drive to fail, and thus cause my computer to be inoperable? I've backed up disk partition drive F, which is the only partition that contains data which will be very difficult or impossible to replace if lost. The information on all the other disk partitions are easily replaceable.

So, how long do you think I can keep using my computer until the hard drive needs replacing? I just checked out the paperwork for the computer, and it turns out the warranty on parts expires today, which is exactly one year since the computer was bought. >:(

[number6]

It depends on the frequency you keep getting disk errors. You could go for months or even years. I have had a disk with a few bad sectors run for years. If you keep getting forced to run scandisk I would say you would need to replace that drive ASAP. As long as you backed up your vital data I would wait and see. Definitely plan for the next month or so to replace it, but you may not need to. I guess what I am trying to say is "I don't know". I think you are OK for the next month and that's just based on my own experience with hard drives.

[IxianMace]

Well I will scan my disk thoroughly once every week from now on then, to see if any more hardware errors/bad clusters show up. It takes a lot of time to scan 37MB worth of disk space. :( I still have no idea how this sort of hardware error could occur, this is the first time it's happened, and I never encountered anything like this with the old Pentium II 400, with its' 6.02GB HD. I've heard that power failures could cause bad clusters, and a friend of mine told me once that if you're formatting your hard disk and you reset or have a power failure while you're formatting it, then you will get bad clusters, but I've never put that to the test, (and I don't intend to). My computer has crashed for unknown reasons several times, and even when I ctrl+alt+del I get no response, so I am forced to use that dreaded reset button, but would this be enough to cause bad clusters? ??? I've never had a power failure while formatting my hard drive. I've formatted the hard drive of this computer and the old computer probably over 50 times (added together) and I've never experienced any hitches. Anyway, I'll keep scanning my hard drive for problems. Looking at the web site for the store that I bought the computer from, it looks like it will cost me $153 to replace the hard drive. :( What could possibly cause a hard drive to get bad clusters? I've only had this computer for a year.

[number6]

Well formatting your hard drive 50 times seems a little excessive, but I doubt it would cause the problem you are having. I do know any time you are writing to hard drive it is not good for a power failure, but formatting is no different than normal writing. If the power goes out while your formatting you have to start the format over, but it is no different than saving a file and the power goes out. I guess you just got a defective hard drive, it happens :( . Usually they fail within the warranty and you would get a replacement from the manufacturer. How long have you had this disk? If it is under a year you fall in the warranty period usually (unless it is like some no name brand). Like I saud it may run fine with that 25K of lost space for years or it could crash tomorrow. Even my hard drive could do that with no bad sectors. Unless your computer is acting funny I would ignore the bad sectors for now.

[Nyarlathotep]

IxianMace, as far as I know, you don't have to pay for the new drive. Most harddrive manufactrers have a 3 year warrenty. Please check out the site of the manufacturer for those details.

If I were you, I wouldn't accept the fact that they let you pay for the new drive.

As to why bad clusters occur, it can happen. It's machinery and it breaks down sometimes.

[IxianMace]

About the 3 year warranty thing, there is something on the paperwork that is a little unclear. Here's what is says. I'm taking it straight from the paper, word for word.

TERMS OF TRADING:

*After 7 days all sales are final.

*Return of non-defective goods will attract a 25% restocking fee.

*Goods returned for credit will be tested before credit is given.

*Above goods remain title and property of Infinity Computer Group Ptd. Ltd. until fully paid.

*All courier charges and insurance are borne by the purchaser.

*Warranty does not cover any damage to other equipment used in conjunction with the above goods.

*There will be a $25 charge for each returned cheque.

*Warranty provided on parts is 1 year (any labour associated is not under warranty).

*Warranty provided on systems is 3 year BACK-TO-BASE warranty on parts and labour.

*Warrany on certain peripherals is provided by their respective manufacturers.

I thought it was 1 year. Looking at the terms of trading, do you think it could be 3 year? Am I misunderstanding something here? ??? :( :-

I should probably contact the store myself to clarify this.