Question for you computer geeks out there

[Mahdi]

I'm getting a new com for school next year, and I need your help as I know very little about them. What do you think of the following systems?

1) AMD 1000 mhz processor with cooling fan (claims to have better performance than pentium 4 1400 MHz)

PCHIPS XP ATX Mainboard

256 Meg ram

Panasonic 1.44 MB floppy Drive

Doble ball bearing case fan

maxtor 20gb hard drive

64 mb video 4x agp on board

CD-RW/DVD

special atx mdtower case 300 watt

windows keyboard

ps/2 mouse and pad

case fan-double steel ball bearing

v .90 56k modem

network card module

3d sound on board

120 watt speakers

1 year warrenty parts and labour

windows 98 or XP (I'd get 98 if I got it)

samsung 17 inch monitor

TV/fm radio with remote (Changes montor into tv)

full colour epson inkjet printer

free super cd software bundle.

for $1299 Canadian

That seems to be the best deal to me out of whats around.

2) AMD 850 MHz

15 inch monitor

128 ram

20 GB hardrive

52x CD rom

32 mb integrated video

120 watt speakers

56k v.90 modem

wavetable sound

ps2 keyboard

4 bay 250 watt mid-tower case

windows millenium star office

100 ethernet card

ps2 mouse and mouse pad

for $899 Canadian

3)17 inch monitor

AMD 1.3 GHz processor

128 mb ram

20 gb hard drive

16*10*40 CD-RW

then the same as #2, except option beteween meillenium and XP.

For $1149 Canadian

So, which of those do you think is the best deal, the ebst value for your money, and which would you rather have if you were moving into residence?

[Nyarlathotep]

I do not know how much you are willing to spends (or can afford), but here are some comments:

1) Personaly, I'm not to fond of onboard stuff, it tends not to be that good as one might suspect (evgenthough 64mb AGP onboard sound promising).

2) As for ram, I would go for 256, instead of 128, especially if you choose Windows XP.

If I'm not mistaken, a Canadian dollar is somewhere around the 0,67 Euro cents. Looking at the prices you wrote down, I find those systems quiet expensive. I do not know if that counts for all systems in Canada, but I thought they would be cheaper there compared to Holland (Europe).

If you have to make your choise from the systems you mentioned, I would go for option 1. It offers a quiet some stuff and compared to the other prices a fair deal. I would try to see if you could increase the processor speed though (if you are going to use this system for gaming also).

Hope it helps and if you have questions, please feel free to ask..

[Mahdi]

Thansk for the reply Nyar. Those prices are actually the cheapest deals around my area. Well, you can buy cheaper systems, but they are monitor less, which is another $250 added on, or printer-less, which is anywhere from $5-$200 added on, or just plain suck.

I don't plan to do much gaming (although I might finally be able to play E:BFD when I get this comp).

Whne you suggest getting a faster processor, is that because nowadays this processor is't that fast, or because in another year or so it won't be real fast?

[Nyarlathotep]

The processor isn't that real fast these days. However, it will do for EBFD :). Do not expect to be able to run the latest games (and those to come) to run on any high detail level.

To run games in good resolution settings and medium, high details, you have to look at processor AND video card. Like I said earlier, onboard stuff isn't my favorite, but then again, I can't tell what one is able to spend either.

If you look at the Harwdare thread in the tech forum, you can see what I'm planning to buy (to give you a comparison of the extreem).

I would like to give the advice, first think about what you want to do, then go for a search for parts. For gaming you'll need something faster (to be able to keep up with games to come), but for just school stuff, the first will be more then sufficient and will remain that for quiet some time.

[gryphon]

The advince I can give you is the following.

- don't get cheap on RAM memory but don't overdo it to. 256MB should do it [ 512 is fine to but more expensive ].

[ but then the prices over there arn't the same as here, you can buy an extra 128 for 5 dollars insted of the 30 over here ]

- A minimun of 17" screen.

The rest depends on what you'r going to do with it.

If you like to play a lot of games you need a good grafics card [ 64MB not onboard ] and a fast processor [ 1 gig, but more would be better ].

Just use it for internet and writing things you won't need that fast prosessor and 64 MB of grafic. So you can save some money on that.

Depending on your connection, if you use a ethernet-card a modem won't be needed.

You might want to look at an alternatieve for that burner / DVD player combination. Two seperate driver [ burner - DVD ] could be a bit cheaper.

Anyway,. . what I would choose beginning from scratsh and not spending to much.

- 256 MBram

- 17"screen [ if possible flat tube cathode ]

- DVD drive

- floppy dirve

- grafics card [ any will do for internet and office apps but for games a 64 MB AGP one ]

- ethernet-card [ 10/100 mbit ]

- onboard sound or a stereo soundcard [ with speakeres ofcourse ]

- hard disk, 60 gig. [ if your not planning to use a lot of HD space 40, when you'r a heavy user 80 - 120. ]

- CPU, only internet and office 800 mHz will do fine, games 1,2 - 1,4 gig. ]

- I like small cases or bigtowers but considering the situation I would say a midi tower is more apropriate [ CPU more or equal to 1 gig you probably need 400 Watt ].

- OS, win2K [ or '98 ].

[ if you don't have a TVset but do want a "cheap" alternatieve that tuner card would be nice. ]

Hope it helps.

:)

[Mahdi]

I'm sorry Gryphon, that was not one of the three specified in my first post. Please try again ;DAs I said earlier, gaming isn't exactly a big concen for me. It'll most likely be used msotly for internet/school work (and, if i get number 1 which I've been leaning towards and nyar seems to think is the best buy, also to watch DVD's and TV).I'm currently checking out those "cheap" dells that you order online too.

[TMA_1]

Frankly all those systems are perfect for schoolwork and are more than enough for gaming if you have a 3d card. I have a duron 750 mhz chip and a geforce 2 mx 32 mb 3d card. I can run any game on the market perfectly. THough some of those games have to be lowered to 16 bit color and some details taken off. I would suggest the first computer because its packed with some good stuff. You wont even need a tv. its somewhat expensive but worth it.

[gryphon]

Sorry, I didn't see the 3 posts above mine [ was verry slow with my reply ] and didn't have the time to edit my post.

A Dell would be better, you get a Intell with them :)

http://ecomm.dell.com/dellstore/basket.aspx?c=ca&cs=CADHS1&itemtype=CFG&l=en&order_code=ocdim4500shxp_e_gc_hxph2p4&~tab=1

Although the one I just "bought" with that in mind would be way overpriced for that $ 1.478 without a printer.

And from the 3 options you gave, considering you just need it for school, work and internet I would say option 2. [ if you can get a 17" screem with it. ]

But that's just because it's the cheapest and will do anything you'll be needing it for. And you will safe 300 dollars with it.

If that extra 300 isn't a problem option 1 would be my choice. [ It is probably worth the extra 300, the monitor and optical drive alone are worth that extra amount. But I can't recommend a system that costs $ 300 more if the system specs arn't needed. Althought it won't be a rip off compared to the others. And you saw from the Dell link, my option would be even more expencieve, so I'd go for the first. ]

Now, can you still make any sence of this ?

:)

[TMA_1]

almost all manufactured computers use intel chips. andthey are inferior to AMD at the moment.

[SurlyPIG]

IMO, buying from a store usually isn't as good as ordering one - especially in Canada. Damn those stingy future shop employees...

Of the three you mentioned, I'd get #1. It's the most capable and isn't ridiculasly priced.

BUT - Before you buy, you simply *MUST* take a look at www.dell.ca They have a system where you can choose a base and then add the upgrades you want and it'll show you the total cost and taxes AND shipping. Also their customer service is superb. I broke my keyboard and fried my CD ROM and got each of them replaced with a single (30 minute toll free) phone call, no hassle and no extra charge! They've won awards for their product support and stuff, so they're a good one to look at.

[DukeLeto]

System 2 should be fine for your needs, but if it's an option, always go with XP. It has much better performane, and is really easy to use. Plus, It'll run more DOS games than my 98 machine.

[Nyarlathotep]

almost all manufactured computers use intel chips. andthey are inferior to AMD at the moment.

If you mean that Intel is inferior to AMD, you're wrong.

Currently Intel has the fastest processor and there's nothing AMD can currently do. The Intel Pentium 4 2.53Mhz with PC1066 (even the Pentium 4 2.4 with FSB of 533 is faster then any AMD) is not going to be beat by anything out there right now.

If you're talking about price, AMD is the cheapest processor.

[DS_CL]

Check to see what motherboard comes with those systems (it does make a difference). You will also find that AMD chips run hotter than Intel chips, causing serious problems in the long run. Intel chips are better than AMD, but AMD is cheaper. Depending on your climate, AMD might occasionally overheat if you do not have a good box and fans. It

[Mahdi]

I tried looking at dell.ca but I can't figure out how to work there website. If anyone can give me a hand, I'd welcome it. My icq is 58450875.

The onboard chips may be a problem to you guys who tend to upgrade your comps and such, but I doubt it will be for me. why, you may ask. Take a look at the system I'm currently using (and ahve been for 4 years).

pentium 2 333 mhz proccessor

64 mb ram

6.4 gb hard drive

2 mb (yes, that is TWO. If I can live with that, I think I can survive with 64) graphics card

pentium 2 333 mhz

17 inch monitor

keyboard, mouse, scanner, printer speakers, microphone.

[Marcel71]

For low price high performance check out www.dell.com i think they are pretty cheap all over the world.

grtz

[TMA_1]

The intel does have cooler chips and higher speeds. Just at higher costs. THe people that complain about chip overheating are people that have no idea about computers. Intel chips are for people that dont have a clue about computers, or they for some reason see a bright future for intel. AMD is coming out with new processors that will devistate intel. Higher cache and bus speeds as well as more transistors will do good against anything intel has.

[Nyarlathotep]

The intel does have cooler chips and higher speeds. Just at higher costs. THe people that complain about chip overheating are people that have no idea about computers. Intel chips are for people that dont have a clue about computers, or they for some reason see a bright future for intel. AMD is coming out with new processors that will devistate intel. Higher cache and bus speeds as well as more transistors will do good against anything intel has.

And you think Intel sits back and does nothing ? And I'm not an Intel fan because I don't have a clue about computers. I like Intel more because I had several problems with AMD processors (on different computers). And yes, Intel has a bright future.

Higher cache, increased bus speeds ? The new AMD (Barton) will use 512 L2 cache (instead of the 256 currently). Intel is already using 512 L2 cache, so no surprise here. As for FSB, AMD uses 266Mhz, while Intel runs at 533. The increase of FSB on the new AMD won't be enough to pass the current Intel FSB. Again, no surprise here. And like I said, Intel won't sit still (new 3Ghz coming out soon).

I do not know where you got your information, but IMO you're a bit of track :)

[gryphon]

Intell is also for people who need a Xeon or simular processor type ::)

I havn't seen any AMD or VIA one just jet. [ And jes, mine is quite old by now, it's not a new Xeon ]

And regarding chipsets, overall Intell is leading at the moment. [ but supprisingly Nvidia is getting something new at the moment, mayby together with AMD ? ]

But then I must also admit, AMD didn't do / and doesn't that bad ;)

[TMA_1]

The chipsets and motherboards dont take that kind of power goodness. The ones that do are really expensive. Also you need faster ram and whatnot.

[Nyarlathotep]

The chipsets and motherboards dont take that kind of power goodness. The ones that do are really expensive. Also you need faster ram and whatnot.

In reference to what is this stated ?Sure Intel is more expensive, but that doesn't mean they currently beat AMD's butt. And yes you need fast RAM, why wouldn't you ? Btw, you can use different types of ram, but if there's faster available, why would one (that wants performance) want slower memory ??

[SurlyPIG]

Dell has a special on until August second that you get free shipping. I would *strongly* suggest ordering one of these guys before the deal passes.1) Go to www.dell.ca (Canadian extension).2) On the right, under consumer, click on home and home office.3) Under the computers tab, click desktops4) Choose one of the three dimension bases and click on the one you want to buy. Remember, don't go for too much if it's not what you need. You can upgrade the lower end ones right from the next page.5) You are now on the customization page. Choose the upgrades you want. After this, you can buy it with a credit card.I would reccomend the Dimension 4500S that's listed under the main computer page. It's on special and it's just about what you're looking for. As you will see it's a MUCH better deal than any of the 3 rigs you listed, plus you can customize it to a degree.If you customize it right, you can get:1.7Ghz Intel P4 processor256mb DDR SDRAM at 266mhz (basically the best RAM around) - upgrade40GB Hard Drive - upgrade48x CD ROMWindows XP home17" monitor - upgradelexmark inkjet printer - upgradekeyboard, speakers, mouse includedAND a 1-year warrantyAll for $1198 minus a 30 dollar mail in rebate for the printer.This way you can add your own video card 'cause onboard stuff is usually garbage.

[DukeLeto]

See, actually, Intel chips are inferior to AMD chips. Intel may have faster speed ratings, but a 1.53 Athlon performs like a 1.8 P4. Trust me...I have both an Intel and an AMD comp.

[Nyarlathotep]

See, actually, Intel chips are inferior to AMD chips. Intel may have faster speed ratings, but a 1.53 Athlon performs like a 1.8 P4. Trust me...I have both an Intel and an AMD comp.

That's true. The lower Intel processors are slower then their AMD competitiors. In my discussion I was referring to the 2.4Mhz and 2.53Mhz which run at an FSB of 5333Mhz.

[Mahdi]

It costs way more for almost the same system from Dell as option #1.

[Navaros]

One question:

What company are you planning on buying these things from? 'Cause I bought from IPC once and it was a total nightmare, if you require details I could write a book about them. Avoid IPC like the plague.

20 GB HD is wayyyyyyyyyyyyyy obsolete and pathetic. You need *at least* 60 GB. And don't let them skimp on the graphics card, find out what chipset it's using and by "onboard" do you mean "onboard - intergrated into the motherboard chipset" or "onboard - permanently stuck in the AGP slot for eternity"?

If it's the second one, you definitely don't wanna buy it.