Please help me understand Mino range and pathfinding

[Navaros]

I have some questions for elite players:

1. Lately I have not been noticing that the Minos have longer range than the Kobra. My Minos never seem to fire until the Kobra is already firing back. And the Kobras almost always win. Am I a complete moron? Why aren't my Minos using their supposedly superior range to fire before the Kobras get into range??? It does not matter what I try: I have tried moving the Minos forward an inch at a time, stopping to see if they fire, then repeating. Yet still, they do not fire until the Kobra can fire back. What's up with that? ??? ??? ???

2. Minos Pathfinding. This is driving me completely nuts. I can't count the number of games I've lost simply due to the fact that the pathfinding of Minos is utterly despicable. For example, yesterday I was playing a game on a map where there are a lot Greek-looking buildings cluttering over the ground. I had the bottom position. Whenever I sent my Minos out to defend my Spice, they would actually *turn around* in the OPPOSITE direction of they destination and start walking the wrong way! This has happened to me *many* times before and it's absolute suicide whenever it does happen. I need a decent way to counter this. Even if I select my Minos and click on a a spot very close to where they are currently standing, this *still* happens. ::) ::) ::)

Please help me with these two things.

[Timenn]

1. Mino's and Kobra's have the same range, they use the same bullet, the KobraHowitzer_B. And with the bullet is the range attached. But sometimes it doesn't look like that, that is strange indeed, and it may be caused by some bugs in guard-mode and height advantages.

2. This is indeed irritating, but this counts for all units, I noticed

[xvayne]

Minos do have longer range than a kob. Trust me i know. You could try targeting the kob instead of walking closer. With that the mino wil fire once in range. Also if a kob moves into your range, and you are in his there is no point in trying to leave to get your range, just fire it out.

[SurlyPIG]

1) Minos will outrange kobras if the two are on even ground. Just target the kobra while your mino is outside of its max range. The mino will move towards the kobra, stop once it's within range, raise its cannons, then fire.

2) You are trying to move too many minos through a space where they cannot fit.

[Acriku]

For the second one...use micromanagement. Of course some won't go through, because they are coded so that they don't go magically through other units trying to get through (imagine that...), so they turn around and find another route. It's annoying, but if you use proper micromanagement it wouldn't be as much of a problem. Like in starcraft, through small chokepoints some units go around the long way to get to the destination because too many units are cluttering the chokepoint trying to get through.

[GhostHunter]

. Am I a complete moron?

Yes.....Yes you are ;D. Anyways, ironicly TIMENN was wrong ??? the mino DOES have longer range then the kobra. And I guess Nav you jus got unlucky or you didn't command'em right because they do have longer range, though not by much. And heck, I cant help you with second problam.Until next post, Vilgent.

[SurlyPIG]

There's an exception to this. The kobra's guard range is a bit wierd. If the ordos player selects the kobra and tells it to attack the mino, it will. So, TECHNICALLY, their range is equal. But since their guard mode is a wee bit stupid, they dont fire by themselves unless the mino comes closer.

[Marcel71]

Well, Mino's have also a small bug in range...

When there are for example 2 mino's. I send 1 buzz to them and 1 missle. They should the buzz, and with the missle i kill 1 mino. While i send my missle back out of the range of the second mino, the mino starts shooting. I driva WAAYYY back with my missle and still the bullits of the mino keep on hitting him. (Although clearly out of the range of the mino).

I noticed also that when the Kobra is deployed and you press a target just outside his range, it shoots anyway at it...

Grtz

[SurlyPIG]

Marcel, this is because the mino started firing while your missle was still in its range.

And the kobra thing - that is the kobra's actual range. It just doesnt target its whole range automatically (hence you have to click on the targets outside of its "normal" range)

[Navaros]

1) Minos will outrange kobras if the two are on even ground. Just target the kobra while your mino is outside of its max range. The mino will move towards the kobra, stop once it's within range, raise its cannons, then fire.

I heard somewhere once that to make units fire as soon as they enter range, you should force-fire on the unit you wish to attack. Force-firing is not the best way to exploit range? I need to be just plain ol' leftclicking?

[Timenn]

Minos do have longer range than a kob. Trust me i know. You could try targeting the kob instead of walking closer. With that the mino wil fire once in range. Also if a kob moves into your range, and you are in his there is no point in trying to leave to get your range, just fire it out.

Face it, in code they have the same range, you may check it in the rules.txt. I've tried to change it because I thought the same, and I found out they already had the same range...

To make it simple

The range parameter is attached to the 'bullet'

Minotaurus fires bullet called: KobraHowitzer_B

Deployed Kobra fires bullet called: KobraHowitzer_B

As said, naturally, they simply have the same range...

[Edric O]

Timenn is right. They have the same range.

But apparently, the Kobra won't fire automatically at units at the very limit of its range. You have to tell it to fire yourself.

[Timenn]

Is there anywhere you can view the guard range of units, maybe the Kobra one is too short...

[Soul_-_Reaver]

Nav, you are usually on about defence mostly.. here's something i've done in the past.. i've had my mino's along the ridges of rock.. well.. the ramp ridge.. that gives them a little benefit on range, but as you say, if the other player force fires on the mino's they will just stand there, despite the kobra is within range, so what i started doing is having my mino's up there and forcefiring at their max range on the floor.. now let kobras try and get close enough to attack without being hit.. but of course that is sacrificing the fact that they won't fire on other units so you need a fair few mino's, also leave a path so that your not blowing up your own units and they can get out safely etc.. but for while your gathering a strike force, it's quite usefull..

There are always ways to get around a defence.. once i did this and had no mongooses and my mino's got picked up by adv carryalls, another time a deviator got dropped in behind my wall and got my mino from behind.. i survived cause of how many mino's i had but it could have been worse.. there's always something we don't account for.

Well that tip may/maynot come in handy. Gd luck anyway.