Ixian Projectors

[vierge]

Of all the units that need to be balanced in Emporer, the Ixian Projector has the most urgent need. Build 3-5 of them and place them behind an assualt force. Immediate, deadly, and unlimited reinforcements are at your disposal.

If you copy fremen, the copies retain the stealth ability and attack power. With 4 projectors, one can project 20+ infantry units in about 10-15 seconds. The cannon fodder potiential is insane.

The projector makes the Ordos laser tank a worry of the past. Copy 4-8 of the opponents laser tanks (3-5 seconds of work). The projected tank does not have shields, but does have a laser. Boom! 'Nuff said.

Why spend massive amounts of resources and factory time building the uber range units (Inkvines, Minotaurus, Kobras)? Build a few and supplement their numbers with copies. Spent the resourses saved to beef-up the support units for big boys.

Projections make confusing and opponent easy. Flank a few projections to the other side of the opponents forces. Attack with either the projections or the main forces. Bring in the other group of units (who will then get free shots, if luck permits).

Warning: Do NOT group projections closely together. A single mortar or flame attack can route many projections similtaneously (splash damage is horribly effective against projections).

My initial thought was to use Ixian projectors with Guild NIAB tanks. One real tank could provide a huge, deadly, and insanely mobile attack force. I'll give Westwood credit for not letting this happen. To the best of my knowledge, NIAB projections do not fold space (aka teleport).

Possibly the greatest asset to the Ixian projector is it's speed and manuverability. One can use these speedy vehicles to quickly create a completely expendable (read: NO cost save the projector cost) and deadly force. Their speed is comperable to a sand bikes and is vastly superior to infantry and mid to high tech factory units. The deploying animation is quick as well.

Any comments on this post would be appreciated. I would also like to play some good Emporer players. Anyone is free to contact me for a game.

[Gobalopper]

Scouts are a cheap way to counteract the Projector units. You can't do as much damage if you have a few guarding the entrance/outskirts of your base.

[ordos45]

You know that is the most common subhouse complaint I've heard. I'll probably complain too when I play against someone with Ixian projectors. Like Gob said just put some scouts at the base entrance. As for copying the fremen fedaykin just build a lot of snipers to defend.

[Guest Albatross]

Not to sound like a TOTAL n00b, but how do Scouts help against projections?? I mean, aside from being cloaked and the projections run into them by accident (which makes the enemy note that spot and simply have some splash-damage-causing holograms splatter the poor Scout), do Scouts really have any way of revealing them? Like, do projections dissappear within a Scout's LOS, or what? Unless they have some 'radius' effect that can eliminate projections, then the fake units are STILL horribly and unbalancingly effective. Darn, the enemy has to micromanage to splatter a scout or two, but he's still got effectively unlimited forces. If not, he can STILL put em behind walls and use them as D. A half-screen of wall, packed with projections behind it, is pretty much impervious, especially if you try to weasel a scout back there. The only REAL solution to the projection problem is to destroy the original projector unit. Great if you can, but since it'll be in the back and can just RUN AWAY... well, that doesn't help much.

THere are two ways I see that could effectively 'fix' the cheapness of this unit.

1) Make the copies have attacks that do ZERO damage. Shouldn't be too hard. Take that 'laser' setting off of cloned Tron Tanks so that they don't blow up shielded units, too. If the projections are just that, HOLOGRAMS, then they shouldn't be able to do damage anyway. Now, this is still useful due to all the things you can still use them for.. scouting, masses of units when crossing an area packed with D, etc.

2) Make it so that if the projector UNDEPLOYS, all units tied to it dissappear. This, I think, is not as effective as 1) but FAR more easy to implement with the programming. It still leaves defensive projections as a bit of a pain, but nothing a few air units couldn't cure (us Snakes remain screwed). Using a Projector or three in an offensive strike still gives the other guy a way to counter the cheapness, since the projector will be sitting out in the desert, requiring extra defense, sitting outside a base, and still being a possible choice for worm food. I'm not certain, but I don't think worm attacks are all that random in multi, I think there's an 'attack weight' somewhere in the files that encourages them to appear near clusters of units. If this is true, they could raise it a bit more to make Projectors one of the favorite types of 'worm food'.

[Gobalopper]

Projections don't last forever so using them as defence will only work if you have time to set them up before an attack. Plus it is pretty easy to kill them and scouts work great because any projection that comes near is detected and dissapears and I don't think this gives away the scouts location either.

If you get rid of the damage it's useless, why use them when scouts can do a much better job. It is strong if you don't know how to counter it, there are a lot of units like that, but they certainly aren't invincible.

[ordos45]

Not to contradict you Gobalopper but if in a very unlikely case the enemy is paying attention they may notice where there units are missing and will assume 1 of 3 things.

1. There is a scout in that location.

2. There are other enemy units in that location.

3. The projection simply ran out.

[Gobalopper]

Well of course he will know it is in "that area" but you could be hiding it anywhere around there. And the time he wastes trying to find one scout you could be building even more units. :)

[Guest Albatross]

Um.... Yeah, Gob, but the thing is, he can be building units WHILE he's searching for your scout. All he has to do is queue up a whole list of them and let the computer auto build. Also, Scouts are notoriously weak in the health department... practically anything with a splash damage weapon will kill them in one shot. If you're referring to him making more units, well yeah, but chances are, he's already made an army of them. It won't take more than 2 seconds to splatch a Scout. Once 1.07 hits and we have Move ATtack, he'll just clone up a small army of dustbugs or bikes and send them in a sweep to clear out the scouts. Jolly.

[Gobalopper]

Scouts are cheap, for $30 dollars him killing one isn't going to hurt you. Just build a few more, and if you find scouts aren't working use something like Fremen Warriors or if you are Atreides the Sniper.

[Guest Daniel RTS Master]

Here's my plan to fix the promblem, that should be in a patch or expansion.

Projectors has a shut down period of 15 seconds after it has projected a unit, after the 15 seconds it gets power back on and back Projecting Again.

So, What do people think of this idea?

[Guest Shocktrooper]

Actually projections aren't really that scary. They are actually very easy to counter--Frmen, scouts anf basically anything that moves fast! I have ixians as my ally and I find that though they are powerful, they need a lot of micromanagement and other stuff. Making the Ix projecter shut down for 15s might be a good idea, but only allowing the player to clone 1 unit is not very good. 1 projection is so easily countered that it will make the projector a useless weapo! I think just keeping the projector as it is might be better.

[bob_fox]

I really don't think it is a problem that Projectors are too good. I have seen quite a few messages where people say that certain units or houses are too good. Perhaps the people who say they're so good are just very good at using them. So perhaps too our friend Vierge here is just super good at using Projectors. The aforementioned "splash" problem is a big setback for the Projectors. Personally, I like those Tleilaxu Leeches. Nasty things, those! (Of course, I haven't had the game for very long at all (but I don't think anybody else has as well).)

[ordos45]

Yes Gobalopper I guess you're right. Scouts can be moved away and even if they aren't they are easy to replace. As for the projections they usually can't do everything the original can do.

[bob_fox]

Use Kobras (if you're Ordos) and watch 'em projections disappear :D!

[jasraj_s]

Uh... if i were to use projectors... well suffice to say that my entire base would be full of them. So while you Cobra's are shoting down a few of my projections... another 10-15 will be on your case. Ever seen what 10-15 minotaurus can do :)

[fedaykin_jatin]

fremen still rule all.. those sucky kobras wouldnt last ......

[themurl]

There are many ways i go about stopping projections, for the atreides, ornithopters work very well in finding the projector and destroying it, harkonnens can use bombers and ordos, who suffer from a distinct lack of air units can use dust scouts or las tanks which are very fast. An alternative method would simply have to be something with splash damage or a fast rate of fire. As you can see, with so many ways of dealing with projections and projectors they really suck, any normal base defense can handle as many projections as can be thrown at it.

[bob_fox]

God_Emperor, I, of all people, know how good those Minotaurises are. It was just a suggestion (I've seen an attack where hundreds of projectors got wiped out by a few Kobras :D).

[fedaykin_jatin]

but porjects r jus projections.. so we aint takin lossess. it would be far better for u to shoot the porjectin units or the units that r being projected.

[bob_fox]

but porjects r jus projections.. so we aint takin lossess. it would be far better for u to shoot the porjectin units or the units that r being projected.

It's very difficult, though, to get past hundreds and hundreds of projections to get to his Ixian Projector Vehicle.

[exatreide]

simple solution: project your own army of holgrams have then fight the holograms while your sneaking behind them.

[themurl]

I know theyr'e just projections but all i'm trying to say is that while you futilely throw hundreds af projections at someone's base, any basic defensive line can take care of them, and while you are busily projecting units the enemy just leaves their defense to deal with it and goes and does something else.

[fedaykin_jatin]

futilely? helo those projects still do dmg! if they even jus last to make 1 salvo. hell ur base defenses r down...

[themurl]

Not likely! A sniper can outrange almost anything so good luck trying to get the projections to get past a sniper or a Fremen warrior either. Also a Minotaurus or Kobra defending the base will make quick work of them, have you noticed what happens when the minotaurus destroys its target and has remaining missiles, they go to any other units within range, plus the splash damage. You can kiss those projections goodbye. And anyway a unit stationary seems to have an advantage over a unit moving in for the attack.

[ordos45]

Whoa I need to ally with Ix at this rate.