Creating a board game based on RTS games.

[X3M]

Anyone, having any idea on how I could name my board game?

Wargame, is such a silly name.

 

Edit on 29-1-2013.

I have a name for my board game. Even though it's a very basic name, it's original.

[X3M]

My god, you made so many improvements since yesterday.

Thanks for the reading material.

It's the folks at sfml who deserve thanks; they've created wonderful tools to play around with. In fact, I changed my mind. I spent the night experimenting with scrolling the map. I didn't address any of the current issues you pointed out yet, but I made a new version that I will post on the topic. There are now unit icons too.

So I guess we continue here then?

I love the unit icons :).

Once this version works 100% however. A wall of only €30 would have 120 pieces in a region like that :D. I suggest that the picture can overlap each other once there are too much pictures. Still, a selection on a region would have to give info about the units in that region. Like remaining health etc. This could be done in a way by having something like a side bar. Where the unit pictures are also shown.

I am also thinking of continuing with the EBFD units. Since you have those pictures. If we want to stay true to the unit prices in game. Then I need to start using different types of armour. The minimum would be 25 instead of 50. But I need to warn: the game will be hard to balance, since sometimes a unit type is just missing if we want to be true to the real game. Or I choose to not being true to the game mechanics of EBFD. But this is also the reason why the C&C people didn't like my board game which had C&C units. On a side note, the suicide units and the size reduction factors will become important. I am currently working on the size reduction factors. But the suicide mechanics, I discarded them for being one of the hardest things to balance. I could start an entire topic on that one.

I will also think of how the sandworm should work. They will have no random weapon, very high priced, and "small" sized. And there should be a new region type, not a mountain, but "hard" terrain. Where sandworms can't move. You should also keep in mind that if we are going to use harvesters, they should move automatically in a new chapter of a round. But also be able to select them and have them do something different before the auto kicks in. But this is all for the future.

I just noticed: you accidental switched speed with range.

Those who don't move, remain selected. But I guess you will fix this as soon as no1 will move at all.

Good job on the half hexagons. Get the pictures inside of the region, it will look way cooler.

I love the selection indication.

I love the scrolling and zooming.

[X3M]

At least the title is correct for this thread.

Creating a board game based on RTS games.

Based on RTS would mean, you control an army and so does the opponent, AT THE SAME TIME. But the RT is dying here. After altering the rules constantly, I have come to a conclusion. My board game is far, far away from being RTS now. It's just S now.

It has completely transformed into a turn based game. Why?

-The game master got removed, all the actions had to be played 1 by 1 after that. But since every unit was allowed to do 1 action per round. It was still a 'sort of' RTS. Well, the R died, so TS.

-At first, players could have a different amount of turns each round. But chances are high that that is going to stop. After all, moving through small area's should happen fair. For this, only a maximum of actions should be allowed for each player. And when you apply this, then the game might as well become turn based. Even though, applying actions with 1 sqaud all the time, or the squad awaits actions of other squads until the quota has reached of maximum actions. We are now somewhere between TS and just S. Depending on the amount of actions for each player each round.

The maximum actions for each player could be increased by:

Playing a card which allows just 1 more action.

Or researching something like more control of units.

Or having something like a Radar, which increases control.

So, then you start with just S, which itself can increase the T in TS.

Perhaps I should start a new thread with:

Creating a turn based strategy board game based on RTS games.

To make things clear, I got this conclusion since I was trying to fix the rules according unit sizes and region sizes. And how movement should work.

:(

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Edit:

I have thought something up. Also, the game that Spectral Paladin is making, will have some sort of game master. So it will be like Same Time Risk. STR instead of RTS. O well. I'll continue making my manual. And adjust a copy of that into the STR version.

[X3M]

Sorry for not being online this week, work demands my presence in the afternoon till night in 1 week. Then again just day shift in another. This week, I was home between 22:30 and 23:30, and I am a good sleeper :D.

Good things:

- I like the fact that the movement possibilities are highlighted. The difference between the Minotaurus and the Rifle Infantry is so obvious, I love it. It was wise of me to start with 4 completely different units to test on. The same will be for the range.

- Esc for deselecting everything is a good option.

Bad things:

- A bug? When you select the Ordos units, you still play with the Atreides units?

- Units don't move any more? I think I am doing something wrong, if it worked for you.

Possibilities?:

- Can you add the Shift, or Ctrl key to deselect just 1 unit?

- Can you change the 12 and 13 into the amount that the units are worth? If done right, both will say 3600.

[X3M]

Spectral Paladin, you did a fine job already.

[X3M]

Read my last post for last additions :), I haven't seen Spectral Paladin around lately. So I don't know about the computer version.

Status:

- I got a paper version for 2 basic armies as mentioned before. This includes cards and experience points.

- I am working on a manual for other people to read and play the game.

- What I would like to add is, new sized units. For example, the sniper costs €600, and it's size is 600. But I want to modify this and rebalance. Infantry that are as big as tanks does not fit people's tastes. And if new strategies are opened, then it would be cooler. Right?

[X3M]

Thanks Hawker, this will keep me going.

[X3M]

Ow, I got some computer models too. In the form of some calculating programs in Excel.
I was only posting that Sniper stuff, so other people could see some example fights. What to do, what not to do.
Not really the results, but more the thought and strategies that come with this game are what count here ;).
This was not testing ;)

For example, some attacks are not done if you don't have certain cards.
Cards will provoke players to do something.
Some units have a provoking ability as well.

For example, if you combine Snipers the following cards:
- Assault, the Snipers move in at range 7 and immediately attack.
- Lucky, the Snipers will do 16,7% more damage with the dice, 6 act like if they are 7 Snipers.
- Backdoor, the enemy has some expensive (€480) Tank Blaster Infantry hiding behind the cheaper Sand Bags. The Snipers can now aim at the Tank Blaster Infantry instead.
- Flank, if the Backdoor doesn't work because the Tank Blaster Infantry are protected from 2 sides.

Something like this would be a planned strategy for taking out a little stronghold that's specialized against tanks. A strategy like that can be tested in a computer model. But players need to know that they actually can apply this. That, a computer model cannot do.

Besides, I personally don't need computer models for testing, since testing on paper actually works 10 times faster by now ;). Not the game that is played, but simply the mathematics for the game. If I want to test something, I don't need to adjust a program for this, I simply change some variables in my quotations. And I see the progress of the fights in 1 view. I can simply see at what point something goes right or wrong. In the first Sniper example, you can see that the Snipers actually have 3 good rounds, then after that, they die horrible. With some other units, this difference is very subtle, but still can be seen if the numbers are on paper. A computer model shows less stuff, and you cannot really put it in graphs.

Besides, when your version is ready. You need comparison material for knowing if you have done it right, right?

[X3M]

You already did more then anyone else before you combined. And you did a lot right, right from the start.

If there are any questions, you know where to find me.

[X3M]

Thanks.

 

Some updates:

- Searched all over the internet for good terrain templates. Talking about the 3D form of hexagons, and those that increase level of hight as well. No such templates exists, so I have to come up with some myself.

 

Edit:

So I did. And I use some simple plastic and paper for it.

 

It feels very durable too. :)

 

[THE AQIB]

you seem to be pouring your life into i have been watching this project from the begginning. nyc job.

[X3M]

Thanks,

My major problem is to make it understandable, what I do here.

My second problem is to make it understandable enough so that people can play the game.

There are not much people who actually can play this game at this moment. There are 4 others now. I am happy that most of them are positive about it. And give me advice.

The one who is negative about it, lost all the time because he didn't apply micro tactics. It's very important in this game.

For all I know, it's a board game for nerds then who are willing to think like a chess player. But that's ok ^^.

[THE AQIB]

tried risk? it might help you organise...

[X3M]

I played risk 20 years ago when I was 9.
Risk is a very easy game to understand compared to the game I have created now.
Risk bores me these days.

[THE AQIB]

true... actually i never could try risk as when i can buy it wont be avail else will be gleemin in the shelf...

[THE AQIB]

anyways best of luck... will be waiting...

[X3M]

anyways best of luck... will be waiting...

If you have some dice, pen, coloured paper and scissors.

And are willing to try something.

I can PM you with something to start with.

I know that I have posted something here in the past. But I deleted it back then.

 

And again today at 29-1-2013 22:48.

[THE AQIB]

i can test it out for you... the game...

[X3M]

Great to hear, I will PM the info.

[X3M]

A small update:

 

Since everyone had talks about tanks crushing infantry. I thought to take a look at it again:

 

So I did, and I have reached a conclusion.

But god forbid posting it here. :D

[Falconius]

A.S.L.

Starcraft

Warcraft

Gears of war

 

All of these boardgames have their rules posted online. Thought you might find some inspiration from checking them out.

Otherwise you might end up reinventing the wheel, as they say.

 

Good luck.

[X3M]

I checked many board games already, including warcraft and starcraft. They aren't really RTS, they are simply based on RTS. And there is a lot of gamble in those games too. (No one likes the starcraft game anyway)
However, those other 2 will be looked at as well.Maybe they give me some new idea's.
 
Reinventing the wheel is not the case here. I have something new that gets new additions in the rules so now and then. (Just like Magic) And thus I post something here.
 
The game was completed in its "new printed" version 2 years ago. And currently I have warred several rounds, most against myself.
For better map printouts, I started using the Ogre Map editor. For units I still use the pictures from RTS games sidebar icons. Just like the NOD buggy in the beginning of this thread.
 
Here's the Dune2 section:

 

---

 

Falconius

 

I checked Gears of War and ASL.

ASL is actually one that comes closer to my game. And I have heard good stuff about it.

But if you want to have an even better idea: Axis and Allies is currently the game that has 2 systems that I also use. The "which unit goes first in shooting system" and the "which unit dies first system". Even though I handle this a bit differently.

[X3M]

Sometimes a player blocks 1 region completely with a pile of 120 "wooden fence"s (smallest game piece). Their function is to block movement and incoming projectiles. Just a couple can shift a battle completely. But non the less, if 120 are allowed, then 120 are placed. And 1 entrance to the base will be completely sealed of. Only high anti infantry weapons can do the trick.

 

That's right, 120 units in 1 region. It kinda looks like this:

But about 4 times higher. They are 20 x 30 x 1. So the pile is 2 x 3 x 12 cm. Easy for tumbling. Luckily the fields are hexagons with a diameter of 12, so a lot of piles can fit in.

 

If I want to change cards into miniature figures. Then I need to think of something new. Yet I need to keep the rules intact and the usage of these walls.

 

Possible solution?:

I was thinking about counters, but each wooden fence has 6 health. So a total health counter could do the trick for the entire pile (720 health, or as counter a 10 sided clip with the numbers 1+2+4+8+15+30+60+120+240+240). Yet when you want to place units in between the walls before a battle starts, you need to split the counter up in to 2 or more. And what if someone is building up the pile? For every attack that is received, a new counter needs to be added for pointing out the damaged walls. This means that for every wall, there is 1 counter.

 

I might as well keep the cards for the walls or change the rules into building up health instead of tracking these units each as 1.

Apparently I have no good solution for changing into miniatures regarding the walls. Suggestions are welcome.

 

---

 

During my search for possible mixed terrain pictures. I came across this:

http://www.inspiredpress.net/2012/09/mark-2-hex-prototypes-and-kickstarter.html

 

They are indeed inspiring. :) And I wish them the best of luck with going public with their board game.

[X3M]

Yes, I have some updates. Working on my manual lately. Fixing grammatical errors, changing rules. Rereading refines.

 

Pile O cards problem:

I fixed my pile of "wall" cards with mutli unit replacements. 12 groups of 10 can be placed now instead of 120 separate cards. Just like in Axis and Allies. The only difference is that you can add more damage to 1 group of walls, 60 Health on the group. As soon as a player wants to hide within these walls. The group of walls needs to be replaced by the basic, still living walls.

 

Pile O Experience problem:

I fixed my experience on units. Previously, you needed the XP to remain on the unit and add Ranking Permanents to these units. With each RankingPermanent your unit would have more Health and more Damage. But a lot of recalculating each round was needed. And you would get another pile of cards on just 1 unit. Now that it has been fixed, spending XP is easier. And you can spend XP on 4 different statistics. Health, Damage, Speed and Range can all be adjusted separately. For the Health and Damage, I also have created 6-Health and 6-Damage Permanents which indicate a new level of XP spending. For range and speed, this was not needed. If an unit has a lot of range, then the speed upgrade will cost more XP. If an unit has a lot of speed, then the range upgrade will cost more XP. For Health and Damage, the Armour and Damage type indicate the amount of XP needed.

Killing your own units is allowed. But not recommended since the bonuses are at best a +16,7%.

The exponential effects when statistics are combined is what bugs me the most during the XP balancing. There for Range and Speed Permanents cost a lot more then they should cost. The map itself is also limited in size, so cheap XP spending on Range and Speed would mean overkill. I need to rethink this though.

 

However, now that the pile of experience is gone, piles of Permanents take their place. And the Ranking Permanents (Bronze, Silver, Gold stars) can be thrown away (in a box since I might need them in the future again).

 

If an unit has a secondary or tertiary weapon, then for those Damage and Range Permanents, I need to add a 2 and 3 Permanent to be placed on top.

 

The Experience is complex but understandable now. But during most combat, only surviving units (mostly support units) will survive. They will receive mostly Speed and Damage Permanents and thus the game speed is increased.

 

Pile O Event Cards:

I modified the rules on/for them for better understanding. These come the closest to the game Magic. Yet I am unsure to put the text on the card itself or only the name. And then add a little Event Card manual to the big manual. There will be a lot of hurting other players with these. Some "positive" cards might even be used as a weapon by rewarding enemy units. :). Here is an example:

15 Range Permanent:

The selected unit has 1 more range for the entire game. This unit also fire’s later according to the rules. So this card can be put to good use on the enemy as well. This card may be played anytime. Place a Range Permanent on this unit and place the card back under in the deck.

There is a section in the rules regarding abusing :)

 

Unit statistics:

For each unit, I am planning on creating a unit statistics card. This card is great to have, but also serves a purpose in certain game modes. It contains all the statistics and the first 3(?) XP costs for each of the 4 mentioned statistic that can be increased. But I still wonder on how to design these cards. I already know what to put on them. But some units require more space if they have 2 or more weapons. I think I will keep the maximum on 3 different weapons. Which might include crushing infantry :).

 

Vision issues:

I have rewritten the rules regarding the chance of projectiles reaching destination. This chance is depending on the regions that the projectiles cross. And I added 2 pictures in the manual for this to be explained. Its a big section, 2 pages out of the current 15.

In another section of the manual, I have explained region properties, that knowledge is needed before a reader learns about the projectile movements.

 

Players income:

Regarding Income for the players, I still am not sure how to do this. I have created a list of possible solutions.

By domination, harvesters or resource nodes. I don't know yet. Suggestions are welcome.

 

What is needed?:

At the beginning of the manual. I have created a list of things that are needed to be in the box. It is odd to realise that some things aren't needed in amounts while other things require more cards.

[X3M]

Google is not my friend today. I tried searching for letters in bronze, silver and gold. The trick is, to get them all in the same writhing style and size for printing.

I will be needing H, S, D, R and M (P) for the statistics levelling.

No problems with the other 4, even the P was available while the M was sufficient.

 

Only the H and D are really needed in bronze, silver or gold. Since they increase a lot.

A big pile of M, R or S is intimidating :)

 

Well, I also could say that I am having problems with getting the bronze, silver and gold colours in Word. Since all other cards can simply be printed by Word.

 

So, any suggestions?