Mouse controls (C&C or SC2?)

[stefanhendriks]

Since I play SC2 a lot now. I actually make a lot of mistakes using the D2TM controls. I unselect my units all the time, since right clicking means 'move' in SC2. Actually I like the SC2 version of mouse control better than the C&C one.

So, I am asking you , what do you prefer?

For those who do not play SC2:

- Right click means 'action'. Which is normally MOVE, but when clicking on enemy units it means ATTACK (just like with C&C, except there everything is done with the left mouse button).

- If you want to issue a different command, you use a hotkey (ie, R for repair)

[MrFlibble]

Actually, I do prefer the Blizzard style of mouse control to the C&C style, but perhaps it would be neat to implement both and have the option to select one or another? Age of Empires did just that, so that you can either choose "one-button" or "two-button mouse control".

[stefanhendriks]

Making the controls optional is a good idea. I was just wondering how much preference there was for that ;) I will probably change it to SC2 style now for my own sake and create an optional flag along with it.

[MrFlibble]

Making the controls optional is a good idea. I was just wondering how much preference there was for that ;)

I think many people still prefer the C&C style, since it best fits the easy "point-and-click" scheme, using a single mouse button for literally everything. I remember reading someone's complaints somewhere that Blizzard-style controls with two mouse buttons and keyboard shortcuts were too "complicated" for them compared to the C&C style

In any case, if you really want to know people's opinions about this, I think it would be a good idea to find a densely populated gaming forum and ask people there :)

[stefanhendriks]

I think there is always an argument for any kind of controls style. So I think I will just try and see what works best. Take best from both worlds if possible. Perhaps we can discuss this further in this thread. What would be the ideal control style for D2TM?

[Rippsblack]

My Favourate RTS game, (Total Annihilation)

had the option for the a left click interface or a right click interface

and as much as i loved the choice, i allways stuck with the left click interface.

Since the inception of supreme commander it became right click only and i've noticed the trend in RTS games to be Right Click only...

I honestly feel that the choice is essential... it will avoid alienating any particular players playing style.

looking over the RTS games in my collection i dont think any of them have gotten the control style right just yet... Most seem to forget that there is a middle mouse button too... which should be used for either selecting or going to your base or moving the screen to the action (enemy unit approaching ;p )

Keyboard controls are an essential... i think looking at the Supreme Commander / Total Annihilation Key bindings and copying those that apply to D2TM would also not be a bad idea

Below i have posted some of the main commands from TA for your viewing pleasure

General Keyboard Shortcuts

A Attack

B Bulid

C Capture

G Guard

L Load Unit

M Move order

N Next Unit

P Patrol order

R Repair

S Stop Order

U Unload unit

+ Increase Game Speed

- Decrease Game Speed

~ Toggle Unit Health Bars

Enter Activate The Message Bar

Space Games Stats And Unit Totals

Esc Cancels The Current Command

F1 Unit Info

F2 Options Menu

F3 Go To Last Reporting Unit

F4 Show Scores

Cntrl F5-F7 Set Bookmarks

F5-F7 Jump To Bookmark

F12 Clear Messages

Shift Queue Orders

Cntrl 1-9 Set Squads

Alt 1-9 Select Squad

Control Shortcuts

Ctrl-A Selects All Units

Ctrl-D Toggle Self Destruct

Ctrl-S Selects Everything On The Screen

Ctrl-W Selects All Mobile Units With Weapon

Ctrl-Z Selects All Units Of The Currently Selected Type

Managing Unit Info

~ Toggles Damage Bars on the Units

F1 Displays Info on Selected Unit

F3 Takes You to the Unit That Last Chatted

N Scrolls to the Next Unit Off Screen

T Tracks the Selected Unit

I feel that the blizzard & C&C style controls are good... but not good enough...

[MeglaW]

i´d like to see sc & homeworld like controls, like alt means attack, ctrl-alt means guard/follow

and i´d really like to see those awesum tactics employed, like evasive, normal & aggressive style of attack, combined with formations would be awesome, how great would it not be to lock in the flat shape you build and move the army as a formation at the slowest units speed (f11 custom), or by hitting 2 keys changing your entire army (that you selected with ctrl-numer grouping that you did b4 right ;) from an aggressive wall moving and attacking that defending army you just destroyed to an evasive (F2) ring (sphere f10) so it stays at its absolute max target rage and no closer for a base assault mmmmmm

[Nyerguds]

Well C&C has that, AND the context sensitivity, with just left-click mouse commands...

[with your own unit selected]

left-click on enemy: attack

left-click on ally: select

left-click on terrain: move

alt+left-click (on anything): force move

ctrl+left-click (on anything): force attack

ctrl+alt+left-click (on any unit/structure): Guard/follow

right-click: deselect

[without unit selected]

left click on unit/building: select

So all of that works just with left click, and the ctrl/alt modifiers.

[lord vernius of ix]

In keeping with the argument of many control styles, why not include joystick controll at some point as well?(that would be interesting) or even gamepads?

[ShadowDog]

I've never understood the point of the Blizzard-style controls. Yes, they're better than Dune 2's controls. That's not saying a whole lot. They're not too complicated, but they're still overly complicated. I can understand Blizzard using it for Warcraft, but after Command and Conquer... wait, Dune 2 for Genesis came out before Warcraft... Anyway, let's see if I can remember this correctly: left-click selects a unit, right-click orders it to move or attack, left-click deselects. Now if you want to tell your guys to kill some dude or scout, you drag a box over them with the left-mouse button, click the dude or terrain with the right-mouse button, then click anywhere with the left mouse button. That requires switching the required button to press twice. In a one-button set-up, you drag with the left-mouse button, click on the person, then click anywhere with the right-mouse button. I can't really understand why you'd need to use two buttons for that.

That said, not everyone plays the same way or likes the same kind of user interface. I recommend asking at first startup which control scheme you want to use. That way you don't let anyone miss that the option is there.

[stefanhendriks]

I've never understood the point of the Blizzard-style controls. Yes, they're better than Dune 2's controls. That's not saying a whole lot. They're not too complicated, but they're still overly complicated. I can understand Blizzard using it for Warcraft, but after Command and Conquer... wait, Dune 2 for Genesis came out before Warcraft... Anyway, let's see if I can remember this correctly: left-click selects a unit, right-click orders it to move or attack, left-click deselects. Now if you want to tell your guys to kill some dude or scout, you drag a box over them with the left-mouse button, click the dude or terrain with the right-mouse button, then click anywhere with the left mouse button. That requires switching the required button to press twice. In a one-button set-up, you drag with the left-mouse button, click on the person, then click anywhere with the right-mouse button. I can't really understand why you'd need to use two buttons for that.

That said, not everyone plays the same way or likes the same kind of user interface. I recommend asking at first startup which control scheme you want to use. That way you don't let anyone miss that the option is there.

Actually the whole 'i need to deselect my unit' thing is not needed. Atleast, I always find myself deselecting using the C&C controls. Since I most of the time mis-click the first time when selecting a unit, or accidentaly move a group of units then. So I have a habbit of "left mouse click", action , "right mouse click".. which is essentially the same as you describe for SC2 controls :)

But yes, let the user decide might be the best way to go some day. For now I leave the controls as they are (C&C styled). Whenever I want SC2 style I can always add the option to switch between the two specific styles.

[MrFlibble]

I've never understood the point of the Blizzard-style controls. Yes, they're better than Dune 2's controls. That's not saying a whole lot. They're not too complicated, but they're still overly complicated.

It is well known that de gustibus non est disputandur, but I think most people who criticize Blizzard controls for being overcomplicated usually complain about the need to use the keyboard for many commands, not the left-right mouse button use as such.

Anyway, let's see if I can remember this correctly: left-click selects a unit, right-click orders it to move or attack, left-click deselects. Now if you want to tell your guys to kill some dude or scout, you drag a box over them with the left-mouse button, click the dude or terrain with the right-mouse button, then click anywhere with the left mouse button. That requires switching the required button to press twice. In a one-button set-up, you drag with the left-mouse button, click on the person, then click anywhere with the right-mouse button. I can't really understand why you'd need to use two buttons for that.

Actually, in what you described, both buttons are used in both cases, only in a different sequence:

Blizzard: left-(drag)-right-left

Westwood: left-(drag)-left-right

The only correction being that left-clicking on terrain does not deselect objects in Blizzard games IIRC.

That said, not everyone plays the same way or likes the same kind of user interface. I recommend asking at first startup which control scheme you want to use. That way you don't let anyone miss that the option is there.

I guess I'll agree with that :)

[Nyerguds]

Not making silly mistakes like EA did with the C&C3 left-click command implementation is always a bonus (iirc you couldn't move over bridges with it)

[panzeroceania]

The more options the better in my book. The default should still be C&C style though IMO. I play Starcraft II a ton but I still want my Westwood games to play like a Westwood game.