Communism ideology - good or bad ?

[Da_Ze_Ir]

My opinion (actually my father's  ;D )

Communism is bad IN ESSENCE because :

1. Ambition and the desire to improve oneself is essential to the human being. In communism, you are taken to the same level as everybody else. Aside apathy, this eventually leads the economy to collapse as there is no initiative or desire to work and be creative.

2. Communism always leads to dictatorship. In democracy, there wouldn't be communism because most people wouldn't agree on losing their property  ;) I guess. Dictatorship is bad because dictators are more often than not undesireable for the position.

3. Communism also leads to the promotion of nonvalues, especially around the dictator, who surrounds himself with people that couldn't challenge him. Also, there is little actual interest in values or the concept of wellfair or development for these people.

I think that the ideal society comes with time as the population improves at the level of the individual.

Capitalism and democracy are excellent today, especially in decent countries. With the right people, things are well and getting better. Eventually, a society closer to the ideal forms. That goes on and on.

Furthermore, I think capitalism and democracy would form the ideal society providing there are good people and bountiful economic, technological and artistic resources.

[Khan]

1. Untrue. Ambition and creativity aren't seen as bad things. Everyone is more free than in capitalism. The only restrictions are on people who seek to exploit others. The desire to work comes from the desire to contribute to a society from which we all take. The kind of people who wish to simply take without contributing, can't.

2. Not true, besides any system can be exploited dictators can be voted in. I hate to mention it but Hitler was voted in. I'm sure you are right and people would resent losing their property, but annoying the exploitative few to benefit the exploited majority seems like a good idea to me.

3. Guarding against dictatorship is a concern for all peoples and all governments, as long as there are proper preventative measures to stop corruption it shouldn't be too difficult to stop dictators, societies have to be vigilant though. I presume your comments on welfare come from Soviet Russia which, I'm sure Edric has told you, wasn't communist. In Communism welfare of citizens is very important, how can people be constructive and industrious if they aren't well fed and healthy. Now try asking someone in Britain or the US on benefits about welfare and you'll see the values present in capitalism.

[Dante]

Capitalism: giving you bountiful economies since 1929.

[exatreide]

1. Greed was never present in any of the environments in north America prior to the European invasion. North American Indians were very socialistic were they not?

2.Communism may, as communism leads to the concentration of power in fewer and fewer hands. I don't believe that communism has or will ever be a workable system...

Socialism on the other hand keeps the entire population actively engaged through referendums and direct democracy.

Debs>Lenin ;)

3.Non values? Can you explain that a little better? Agreeing with Khan in that all societies have to watch out for dictators. Mussolini, Hitler,Pinochet could all be described as dictators from the right.

Everyone should have the right to realize their full potential as a human being.

They shouldn't have to worry about health care

They shouldn't have to worry about poverty

They shouldn't have to worry about education.

Think how many brilliant minds the world has lost due to starvation and poverty.

[Caid Ivik]

1.Constitution or spirit of (economic) laws doesn't necessarily (if ever) determine human ambitions and thinking.

2.Dictatorship may have its merit, when the position of the dictator is legally limited and theoretically anyone can become one (like in Roman Republic). The problem lies in oligarchy of the Party, which much more often arises in the state and by totalitarian means tries to eradicate the opposition or idle classes. This, however, can be done by a strong party of any ideology, even in a country with a strong democratic tradition. It can be done by army, aristocracy, clergy, worker unions...by any sufficiently organized group.

3.Yes, although I think the main deceiving non-value of such ideology is in fact its focus on material wealth and welfare.

[The_Sadukar]

I am actually rather sure that Edric has not been joining this thread yet

[spazelord]

Well Da_Ze_Ir if you are referring to the idea that you live in a democratic country like USA or I should refer to the west is a good idea, then it is only an idea and not practiced the whole truth and honesty as a government. In communism they tell you the rules under that nation and you know what