Alternate Dune 7

[clooster]

I'd like to know what the forum's members would have put in an alternate version of Dune 7:

I would include Duncan retrieving data lost from the main computer when they fled Chapterhouse, from his own brain, thru a mind probe machine found on the ship. Maybe I'd also include Duncan and Leto Sharing. If not possible, then I would have liked Kevin & Brian to point out that before entering a nulentropy room, you switch it off, and maybe include a plot with such a room (because, presumedly, you could survive indefinitely inside it); the greatest possible correction to Hunters must be scopewise, there might have been failed flights during the Scattering, but they populated many universes according to Frank Herbert's last novels, anyway. So it's not about humankind's total destruction, just the chasing of the Honored Matres and possibly the destruction of humankind's original galaxy, or universe. 

[MrFlibble]

The greatest possible correction to Hunters would be to burn all the copies of 'em :P

[SandChigger]

The "bitter medicine of a Sheeana future": The Worm Girl gets down and funky with some sandtrout ... and (the) things get out of hand (wink wink), leading to

GOD EMPRESS OF DUNE!!!

(Actually Freakzilla's the first person I ever saw suggesting this, but I'm game! :) )

[Hypatia]

I'd like to know what the forum's members would have put in an alternate version of Dune 7:

I would include Duncan retrieving data lost from the main computer when they fled Chapterhouse, from his own brain, thru a mind probe machine found on the ship. Maybe I'd also include Duncan and Leto Sharing. If not possible, then I would have liked Kevin & Brian to point out that before entering a nulentropy room, you switch it off, and maybe include a plot with such a room (because, presumedly, you could survive indefinitely inside it); the greatest possible correction to Hunters must be scopewise, there might have been failed flights during the Scattering, but they populated many universes according to Frank Herbert's last novels, anyway. So it's not about humankind's total destruction, just the chasing of the Honored Matres and possibly the destruction of humankind's original galaxy, or universe.

Leto should never have been resurrected as a ghola. There was simply no point at all to doing it, other than (speculation on my part) authors' visions of grand special effects if/when these two books are made into movies (and please let that not happen!).

And how would Duncan and Leto Share, anyway? They weren't Bene Gesserit.

[SandChigger]

Hmmm. Would that have stopped the original Leto? :P

[Hypatia]

I suppose not. Whatever Leto wanted, Leto got, except for a human body so he could physically mate with Hwi Noree.

But anything else? Yeah, Leto the SuperWorm could either do it himself or order/intimidate others into doing/getting it for him.

But even if Leto was the nicest, sweetest God Emperor that ever transformed from human to worm, he should not have been resurrected in the new books.

[SandChigger]

Aw, admit it, you LIKE da worm. 8)

[Hypatia]

Actually, I don't. I never did like Leto II.

[SandChigger]

Who said I was talking about Leto II? 8)

[Hypatia]

Leto II changed into a sandworm. Unless there was some other Leto who also did that and I missed reading about it (the stupid ghola baby is technically still Leto II, so that doesn't count).

I don't like any version of Leto that changes into a sandworm, okay? Clear enough?

Gah, I hope so...  ::)

[MrFlibble]

Technically, Leto II did not change into a sandworm - it was more of growing two separate entities into one which was neither human nor a regular sandworm anymore. What he really did change into was lots and lots of sandtrout (however, not all of him did so).

[Anathema]

But the sandtrout evolved into somethink wormlike. In GEoD Leto II describes himself as a "pre-worm". Also by the time of GEoD water was toxic to him, wich wouldn't have been a problem for sandtrout.

[SandChigger]

(Methinks the lady doth protest too much.)

Technically, wasn't Leto a human-sandtrout/worm symbiote? ("Hybrid" isn't correct, technically, because he wasn't the offspring of a human and worm.) There's the bit about his brain gradually having been spread throughout the pre-worm body and no longer localized in his remnant human head...area.

The "pearls of awareness" that the sandtrout take away with them after his death would seem to indicate mixing at, at least, a cytoplasmic level. (Any biologists here?) There is no indication of genetic involvement.

The bit in <i>Grunters of Dung</i> with the Leto II ghola transforming instantaneously (and only temporarily) into a mini sandworm has got to be one of the most ridiculous and universe-internally untenable things a "writer" has ever tried to foist on a readership. If you didn't react to that as a slap in the face, then there simply is not much hope, eh?

[MrFlibble]

What he really did change into was lots and lots of sandtrout (however, not all of him did so).

But the sandtrout evolved into somethink wormlike. In GEoD Leto II describes himself as a "pre-worm".

I meant Leto's death, when his body partly decomposed into sandtrout, not his initial metamorphosis which involved sandtrout as well.

The bit in <i>Grunters of Dung</i> with the Leto II ghola transforming instantaneously (and only temporarily) into a mini sandworm has got to be one of the most ridiculous and universe-internally untenable things a "writer" has ever tried to foist on a readership. If you didn't react to that as a slap in the face, then there simply is not much hope, eh?

Looks like I'm very lucky to have not read any of the sequels :O

[SandRider]

I have a hard time thinking about this "Dune7", because I believe Frank should

have stopped where he originally intended to, at "Dune4". On my grumpier days,

I won't even accept Heretics & Chapterhouse as canon.

[MrFlibble]

On my grumpier days, I won't even accept Heretics & Chapterhouse as canon.

Wow. That's really harsh :D

[SandChigger]

(He can be delightfully harsh at times. :D )

[SandRider]

Frank flat out LOST me with the child-porn, I mean the "sexual awakening" of Teg .....

[cegap]

I can say i liked a little Dune 7. In my opinion the book, even interesting, didnt have a second or a third act. It seem the book entirely is the first act of the next book. I'm starting to read Sandworms, and I think they could put Omnius and Erasmo in Dune 7.

[Dante]

They did.

Personally, I liked Chapterhouse as much as the original Dune. Those two are my favourites. As for what should have happened in Dune 7, I'll take the generic route and say that whatever the Honoured Matres were running from should have been explained with references to the hints given in the books; that is, Daniel and Marty, the futars, the possible Tleilaxu connection, etc.

What did happen is so unthinkable that I refuse to read it. Every time I hear something new it reinforces my conviction that Hunters and Sandworms of Dune were... well.

I'm not saying they're bad books...

[Hypatia]

No, they're not bad books.

They're TERRIBLE books.  :P

[Dante]

Oh we've been there before. ;) To shamelessly quote myself, not for the first time:

I have already made my opinions on this matter more than clear. Don't get me started again.

[MrFlibble]

Hm, this evoked memories of that time when I got accused of accusing Bri- Barney of hating his father (eh) just because I said that something in Hunters (or maybe the Dune 7 outline) contradicted something in the original books :P Oooh, I'm a bad Talifan :)

[Nyerguds]

I just read the last 2 books, and though I must agree some events were quite far-fetched, I liked the overall plot. I just keep wondering if Frank Herbert actually meant the mysterious "Daniel and Marty" to be thinking machines when he mentioned them at the end of Chapterhouse.

[cegap]

I don't think so