Heroes of Dune

[Dunenewt]

It was mainly because Fenring thought/knew Paul could defeat him.

[MrFlibble]

I beg to differ.

The Count focused on Paul, seeing with eyes his Lady Margot had trained in the Bene Gesserit way, aware of the mystery and hidden grandeur about this Atreides youth.

I could kill him, Fenring thought - and he knew this for a truth.

Something in his own secretive depths stayed the Count then, and he glimpsed briefly, inadequately, the advantage he held over Paul - a way of hiding from the youth, a furtiveness of person and motives that no eye could penetrate.

Paul, aware of some of this from the way the time nexus boiled, understood at last why he had never seen Fenring along the webs of prescience. Fenring was one of the might-have-beens, an almost Kwisatz Haderach, crippled by a flaw in the genetic pattern - a eunuch, his talent concentrated into furtiveness and inner seclusion. A deep compassion for the Count flowed through Paul, the first sense of brotherhood he'd ever experienced.

Fenring, reading Paul's emotion, said, "Majesty, I must refuse."

It's page 487 in my book.

[Dunenewt]

Ah okay, well it is mentioned in Sandworms of Dune  Something about Fenring assassinating Paul, and placing a Harkonnen on the throne, who was the child of Feyd and someone else I can't remember.

[Kalas]

To the above poster, Feyd daughter via Margot Fenring. Paul killed approximately sixty billion, Hitler killed six million Jews(he killed non-Jews too,) Genghis Khan four million total.

[Dunenewt]

Yup, that's the one.  Can't imagine Fenring would have been to happy with someone impregnating his wife, but then again he was a eunuch.

[Emperor Harkonnen]

To the above poster, Feyd daughter via Margot Fenring. Paul killed approximately sixty billion, Hitler killed six million Jews(he killed non-Jews too,) Genghis Khan four million total.

If Paul killed that many, then the Jihad had to consist of more than just Fremen. I haven't read those books in a long time, so I don't quite remember the answer to that... anyone?

[Andrew]

It is interesting how one planet (or say Arrakis+Caladan) can take over thousands of planets.

Yes Paul controlled the spice, without spice no space travel and all that other stuff. So paul got his fremen warriors on space guild ships, went to planets and took them over somehow, killing 6 billion people.

[Emperor Harkonnen]

6 billion sound more logical. that other guy said 60 billion

[gunner154]

I know the stuff about Wikipedia being unreliable, but it says here that the jihad caused sixty-one billion people to perish.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dune_Messiah

Why would Paul want to guide all the fremen to kill people and take over the planets? Was that the way he saw himself ruling over the known universe?

[Andrew]

Maybe it was 60 billion, I forget. Someone look it up :)

@ dunenewt about godwin

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin%27s_law

Paul had no real control over his fremen or his jihad. He couldn't just end it whenever he wanted. It could have had to do with the golden path (although Paul never really went down that path, he said he couldn't).

[gunner154]

I asked the question because I was prompted by the space guild ships thing. I can't imagine him telling the fremen "Okay, take these guild space ships and do whatever you want." :P

[Emperor Harkonnen]

Paul glanced at the reels in Korba's hands. Korba stood

with them as though he wished he could drop them and flee. "Statistics: at a

conservative estimate, I've killed sixty-one billion, sterilized ninety planets,

completely demoralized five hundred others. I've wiped out the followers of

forty religions which had existed since -- "

Sounds like Stalins famous quote: "If you kill one person it's a tragedy, if you kill ten million it's a statistic"

[Dante]

Yup, that's the one.  Can't imagine Fenring would have been to happy with someone impregnating his wife, but then again he was a eunuch.

He and Margot planned it, as I recall. Certainly he was aware of her absconding with Feyd in order to obtain some Harkonnen genes.

[MrFlibble]

BTW, it wasn't the first time Fenring's spouse acted as the Reverend Mother in the literal sense. I think he even called her his "little brood-mother".

"The things we do in the name of humanity," he said.

"Yours is the easy part," she said.

"There are some ancient prejudices I overcome," he said. "They're quite primordial, you know."

"My poor dear," she said, and patted his cheek. "You know this is the only way to be sure of saving that bloodline."

He spoke in a dry voice: "I quite understand what we do."

[Dunenewt]

Maybe Fenring got to abscond with him too?  After all, it does mention in House Atreides his fondness for both the sexes.

[gunner154]

While the Baron might be homosexual, I don't know about whether that got on to Feyd... ;)

[Dunenewt]

Didn't the Baron try and encourage it?